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[Mirror Image]

In other words, it's a scam because you don't like it.

You pretty much hit the nail on the head, Greg. When Teresa doesn't like something, she declares that the composer is inferior because she didn't understand them. She's such an ignorant person. Not because she voiced her opinion, but because she continues to deny composers that have had such a tremendous influence on music (i. e. Mozart, Second Viennese School). This kind of stupidity isn't even worth arguing with any further.

[Brian]

100% true perhaps the most boring tonal work I have ever heard and I have heard thousands of classical compositions over the last 40 years!  I find it insulting that you are calling someone a moron for telling the truth about such an unworthy composition.

Then you should listen to Max Bruch's Symphony No 2. God is that boring.

[Teresa]

Well, Teresa, you say you only dislike one of the LP's, what about the others?

No I said "Vienna (Schoenberg, Berg, Webern)" was the ONLY Mercury Living Presence recording I do not like"  Mercury Living Presence is one of my favorite record labels.  I hated all 50 atonal LPs I had purchased. 

& do you expect art to only be about the nice things in life? But look at Puccini's operas - they have just as much sordid things going on as say Berg's (& Puccini likes to beef things up, eg. he made the servant girl kill herself in Turandot, when it was not in the original story). What do you say to that?

Disgusting!  I never liked Opera but for a different reason, the high sopranos sound like they are being tortured.  Now I have another reason to hate Opera, the content.   

[Teresa]

All your own opinion and doesn't represent the larger classical community, which find your rhetoric disgusting.

You are the one disgusting, insulting classical music by calling atonal non-music classical, you should be ashamed of yourself!

I have no rhetoric as HISTORY HAS PROVEN THE ANTI-SCHOENBERG movement is correct as classical composers are back on the right (tonal) track.  If you cannot hear that with your very own ears I feel very, very sorry for you!

Thanks to heros like Howard Hanson and his Neo-Romantic movement you cannot get away with pushing you atonal crap any more, we are wise to you!

[Scarpia]

You are the one disgusting, insulting classical music by calling atonal non-music classical, you should be ashamed of yourself!

I have no rhetoric as HISTORY HAS PROVEN THE ANTI-SCHOENBERG movement is correct as classical composers are back on the right (tonal) track.  If you cannot hear that with your very own ears I feel very, very sorry for you!

Thanks to heros like Howard Hanson and his Neo-Romantic movement you cannot get away with pushing you atonal crap any more, we are wise to you!

At long last, can we agree that there is nothing to be gained by feeding this troll?  Is there any evidence that she ever responded to any argument, except by spouting the same gibberish all over again? 

[not edward]

Thanks to heros like Howard Hanson and his Neo-Romantic movement you cannot get away with pushing you atonal crap any more, we are wise to you!

You do realize that Verklaerte Nacht alone gets more concert performances in major venues than the entire output of Hanson, right?

[Teresa]

In other words, it's a scam because you don't like it.

No because it was so poor with no redeeming musical value, I decided to find out WHY.  And began reading about the scam and all the anti-Schoenberg backlash.

But what if they end up liking Schoenberg?

Won't happen in a million years, it is impossible.

[Teresa]

When Teresa doesn't like something, she declares that the composer is inferior because she didn't understand them.

Incorrect I have clearly stated I do not like Schubert or Schumann but I consider them excellent composers.  There is a difference between liking something and recognizing talent.     On the other hand I have also said there are a few composers I like who I do not think are good composers but I like them anyway.  So it works both ways.

[greg]

At long last, can we agree that there is nothing to be gained by feeding this troll?  Is there any evidence that she ever responded to any argument, except by spouting the same gibberish all over again? 

I don't know... can't stop... her stupid is overwhelming...

No because it was so poor with no redeeming musical value, I decided to find out WHY.  And began reading about the scam and all the anti-Schoenberg backlash.

"Redeeming musical value." I like it, and so do many others. That's redeeming.
Wrong. Try again.

Won't happen in a million years, it is impossible.

No one will ever enjoy Schoenberg (even though they already do), because you said so.
Wrong. Try again.

[Sid]

The way we're going here, I wouldn't be surprised if this thread gets locked down (?).

Anyway, I'm the opposite of Teresa, I don't have much interest in Howard Hanson et al., just regurgitating old cliches ad nauseum. Walton, Barber, Hovhaness were ok, they experimented quite a bit, and even had works that were heavily bordering on the atonal/pantonal, so they didn't have such a limited range. But I don't only listen to "experimental" music, I take in the whole spectrum from medieval to today. I do sometimes prefer the post WW2 stuff, but not to the exclusion of the rest. I've recently discovered guys like Gesualdo, Monteverdi, Couperin, D. Scarlatti & am interested in getting into many genres that I had kind of dismissed in the past, like organ music.

[greg]

Yeah, this thread is getting locked for sure. 

[Scarpia]

Yeah, this thread is getting locked for sure. 

One can only hope.

[Teresa]

Is there any evidence that she ever responded to any argument, except by spouting the same gibberish all over again?

Not only have I responded to every single argument.  I also have written an article on my blog The near destruction of Classical Music by the Second Viennese School

In addition to  Delightful Classical compositions I have discovered all tonal and nearly half modern 20th and 21st century compositions. 

And if you will look at Reply #12 on Page One I gave five YouTubes of modern tonal classical works. 

[Brian]

Anyway, I'm the opposite of Teresa, I don't have much interest in Howard Hanson et al., just regurgitating old cliches ad nauseum.

Speaking as a fan of the old cliches, Hanson bores me stiff. My folks and I were listening to the radio once, Hanson came on, and I said (to my very reactionary parents), "You guys should like this, Hanson is supposed to be a romantic." But they got so bored (it was the Romantic Symphony) that we turned it off after about ten minutes.

[Teresa]

Since it is impossible for the atonal crowd to defend their non-music they now attack those who reject the atonal and embrace the tonal.   

Sorry guys I will not crawl into your name calling slime-pit.   

[Mirror Image]

Speaking as a fan of the old cliches, Hanson bores me stiff. My folks and I were listening to the radio once, Hanson came on, and I said (to my very reactionary parents), "You guys should like this, Hanson is supposed to be a romantic." But they got so bored (it was the Romantic Symphony) that we turned it off after about ten minutes.

Yes, Hanson is far from one of my favorite composers. His music is nothing in the world but a throwback to an older Romantic style. There is no experimentation whatsoever in his music. Like was mentioned already even other American composers like Barber, Piston, Ives, Copland, Diamond, Creston, Schuman, Thomson, etc. wrote music that used Schoenbergian dissonances. These composers were interesting to me because they knew how to build tension in their music and understood the importance of music's inner dynamics. Hanson is just too sweet, I prefer music that has more flavor ---- a musical sweet and sour if you will.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

How you read the "sick" lyrics of vocal pieces and operas of Schoenberg and his followers?  Have you looked at the depraved photos on their album covers? Have you heard violent descriptions of murder, torture, rape and other anti-social crimes in the music of not only the avant-garde but also Rap?

Yes some music is so depraved it should not exist in a civilized society.

You're doing a HUGE disservice to the Second Viennese school by playing up the "depravities" of the texts they used while COMPLETELY IGNORING the "depraved" texts of earlier generations. As if the Second Viennese school invented controversial texts!!

Lust, sexual immorality, violence, murder, war, greed, etc etc...are common themes in fiction writing from the absolute beginning of time. 

So in essence all you're saying with this bile of yours is we should ban/burn the likes of Macbeth!  

You can't have it both ways, Teresa. If you ban/burn everything from the atonalists that you find offensive then you MUST ban/burn everything offensive from the moment musicians started using texts in their music. And make no mistake: this includes the texts of the ROMANTIC composers as well!!!!!!!!!! No fair excluding them just because you like them.

Now get to burning...

[c#minor]

awww don't hate on Hanson. I actually really like the Romantic Symphony. It all comes down to "different stokes for different folks". The 12 tone system was a radical departure (i stress radical) from conventional stylings so it will take longer for people to catch on. I still don't enjoy it that much, though i can find it interesting.

[Bulldog]

The only aspect of Teresa's comments that has bothered me is her view that certain types of music should be banned.  This view is also rather odd in light of the many times she has argued for "individual freedom".

[Brian]

Like was mentioned already even other American composers like Barber, Piston, Ives, Copland, Diamond, Creston, Schuman, Thomson, etc. wrote music that used Schoenbergian dissonances.

I've heard a bit of Creston that I liked, and love Copland. Curious if you have any thoughts on Randall Thompson, whose Second Symphony I've heard courtesy Lenny B. and which to me is a very compelling bit of work.