Teresa's Porno Thread

[Teresa]

Teresa,

Can you do me a favor... please don't talk with me about politics.
Now cooking and baking, shopping and travel are some things I'm sure we can discuss.

All I want is a loving, caring American that is totally free from Pornography and its degenerative effects, where EVERYONE has a job they want and Osama bin Laden is brought to trial for his crimes of 9/11 and Al-Qaeda is shut down for good!

Since you don't agree with that we will have to agree to disagree. 

Politics are more important to the other trivialities you mentioned.  I usually cook for one with easy recipes.  I don't like to travel as it takes me away from my stereo. 

[Saul]

All I want is loving, caring American that is totally free from Pornography and its degenerative effects, where EVERYONE has a job they want and Osama bin Laden is brought to trial for his crimes of 9/11 and Al-Qaeda is shut down for good!

Since you don't agree with that we will have to agree to disagree. 

Politics are more important to the other trivialities you mentioned.  I usually cook for one with easy recipes.  I don't like to travel as it takes me away from my stereo.

And the avenues from which you want to use to achieve all of these objectives are idiotic.
But its not your fault, you have been mislead big time, and I tried time and again to convince you to let it go for your path is one huge error. Unfortunately, you have not listened, not only to me, but to everyone else here, you ignored everyone who tried to explain to you.

The communists and all those other dreamers had dreamt of precisely the same things that you have mentioned. Their ideals were noble, but the way they perused achieving these ideals was erroneous.

I have told you time and again that the well been and success and prosperity of the human race, or individual nations or just plain individual persons, has to do with one thing, morality and that is tied strongly to the acceptance of God and following his will.

If humans will do that, they will be successful and prosperous. If they will not, no human created set of ideas, or ideals, or inventions no matter how 'progressive' or not 'progressive', 'Liberal' or not 'liberal', 'innovative' or not 'innovative' will ever save them from failure, for one end meets them all. The mighty and the Powerful and the wealthy together with the poor, and the weak and the small will all fail, if they are not moral, and if they don't believe in the existence of the Creator who is the source of all life and goodness in this universe.

The lens that you view your world through is shabby, and I want to clean that lens for you so that you will see the world as it aught to be seen. The lens you view the world with is shabby because you believe that the key to human progress and prosperity is hidden within some remarkable set of ideals and ideas that were popped into some intelligent human beings, and translating these ideals into reality would automatically generate, wealth, peace and prosperity, and eventually happiness within humanity.

And I try to clean that lens for you and make you see the world and the people who live in it, in a different light where the Key to success and peace and love and prosperity is found in the acceptance of God as the creator of the entire universe, and therefore listening to his moral code, obeying it and living it.
This is the true key for humanity's success and ultimately its final redemption.

Everything else has failed, all other forms of living that were created by human beings bereft of the belief in God, failed. Its about time people woke up to the truth, and stopped placing their trust in flesh and blood politicians and idealists who don't have the power or the means, and lack the true vision to set humanity on the path of success and redemption.

All has failed, communism has failed, they preached for a world free of God and what they got was a world free of them. Nazism has failed miserably, it was built on human made lies, based on superiorities, and the Germans have murdered millions of innocent people, and they have brought upon themselves wars and defeats, and they have also attached their name in the annals of wicked history for eternity.

Democracy is also not in the best of shape, where we see in front of our eyes, that when a country is built primarily on the dollar, or any other currency, it wont have such a bright future, Sadly, America's and Europe's over-dependence on economy and money turned out to be a counterproductive realization, where if you remove the money, everything else falls to the ground. But a nation that places faith and morality at its core foundations can survive even the most brutal crises, be it economic or otherwise.

So in short, you place your trust for the future on things that have never really worked before, and that is just futile and unfortunate.

I did provide you with some examples from history of great civilizations (King Solomon)who chose to listen to the word of God, they have become the masters of the world, the rulers, the leaders, and the most powerful and most successful ever. This teaches us that been close to God and following his ways, generates success in all areas of life, and there is no need to follow the dark path of some individuals who don't know anything about true spirituality, and who choose to deceive their followers to believe that they have all the answers for all the world's problems.

I tried to warn you about these people, but time and again you still trust them, you know who I'm talking about, the Libs, the Progs and the communists.

That's why I said, that its much better to talk to you about cooking and baking, then politics, at least in those areas we'll find some common ground and actually we'll learn from each other.

[knight66]

I am so glad Saul that you decided not to waste more of your time arguing about this with Teresa.

Mike

[Gurn Blanston]

I am so glad Saul that you decided not to waste more of your time arguing about this with Teresa.

Mike

It is sad, so, so sad...



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Now playing:
Paul Badura-Skoda - D 840 Sonata #14 in C for Pianoforte 1st mvmt - Moderato

[Saul]

I am so glad Saul that you decided not to waste more of your time arguing about this with Teresa.

Mike

Thanks Knight,

I just had to write this to explain to her why I came to that conclusion.
After all this site has so many things to offer, on so many different levels. Isn't it a total waste to spend your time talking to someone who just can't see how wrong she is?
You know sometimes the beliefs of some individuals are so misguided and so shockingly twisted and so categorically wrong, that you begin to question their intelligence, saying :"If that person was intelligent he or she would have never believed these nonsense".

Listening to Teresa's diatribe about terrorism and economy, I wonder to myself to how she was swept by the powers of darkness and lies. For its very difficult for me to associate intelligence to this kind of people who choose to believe these nonsense.

Yet on the other hand, I know that she is not the only one, and in fact there are a great number of people who too were swept by the power of darkness, unfortunately many intelligent people are among the swept.

But I would rather spend my time to those who want to actually see the truth and change their minds, and have an open mind about it, at least with them I have some hope that they can be saved from the darkness they are living in, but Teresa has not demonstrated to me that she is interested to leave her rock solid attachment to her flawed beliefs. Therefore continuing talking to her about these topics will lead nowhere.

I think that I and some others here have made some logical and solid arguments for her that should have shaken the foundations of her beliefs, but all I see as time  goes by is more zealotry and attachment.

This kind of behavior should lead every person who talks to her about these topics to ask:

"Is it really beneficial for me to spend my time explaining things to someone who is not really interested in moving a single millimeter from her positions?"

Well, I have asked myself this question, and I came to the conclusion, that discussing these topics with her is a total waste of time.

[Teresa]

And the avenues from which you want to use to achieve all of these objectives are idiotic.

That is only YOUR opinion, I have studied politics for nearly five decades and so far the Green Party has the only LOGICAL proposals that ACTUALLY will work in reality.  No other political ideas of man come close, indeed if any party is inspired by God it is the Green Party. 

But its not your fault, you have been mislead big time, and I tried time and again to convince you to let it go for your path is one huge error.

Of course it is not my fault, as I have made no error.   However I am very sorry it is you who has been mislead, by the Republican Party and big business.  Someday I hope you see the light and come to the path of God. 

Unfortunately, you have not listened, not only to me, but to everyone else here, you ignored everyone who tried to explain to you.

I not only read every single word you wrote but went to all the web sites you linked and read every single word.  You and they were not only wrong but DEAD WRONG.  Once again it is YOU who has not listened.  [/quote] 

The communists and all those other dreamers had dreamt of precisely the same things that you have mentioned.

You know I am a strong anti-communist and they have nothing whatsoever to do with the Green Party.  I and they believe in complete DEMOCRACY of one person, one vote with NO corporate involvement.  Why do you keep distorting our view to throw them in with liberals and communists.  I WILL ONLY SAY THIS ONE MORE TIME I HATE THE LIBERAL AND COMMUNIST IDEOLOGIES.  Try to remember this.  You really piss me off when you bring them up!   

Their ideals were noble, but the way they perused achieving these ideals was erroneous.

I have told you time and again that the well been and success and prosperity of the human race, or individual nations or just plain individual persons, has to do with one thing, morality and that is tied strongly to the acceptance of God and following his will.

If humans will do that, they will be successful and prosperous. If they will not, no human created set of ideas, or ideals, or inventions no matter how 'progressive' or not 'progressive', 'Liberal' or not 'liberal', 'innovative' or not 'innovative' will ever save them from failure, for one end meets them all. The mighty and the Powerful and the wealthy together with the poor, and the weak and the small will all fail, if they are not moral, and if they don't believe in the existence of the Creator who is the source of all life and goodness in this universe.

So far these are the ways to achieve these goals to create a better society, we should make our stay on earth as humane as possible.  It is not fair to let people suffer with their only release as death and the afterlife. 

The lens that you view your world through is shabby, and I want to clean that lens for you so that you will see the world as it aught to be seen. The lens you view the world with is shabby because you believe that the key to human progress and prosperity is hidden within some remarkable set of ideals and ideas that were popped into some intelligent human beings, and translating these ideals into reality would automatically generate, wealth, peace and prosperity, and eventually happiness within humanity.

And I try to clean that lens for you and make you see the world and the people who live in it, in a different light where the Key to success and peace and love and prosperity is found in the acceptance of God as the creator of the entire universe, and therefore listening to his moral code, obeying it and living it.

This is the true key for humanity's success and ultimately its final redemption.

Everything else has failed, all other forms of living that were created by human beings bereft of the belief in God, failed. Its about time people woke up to the truth, and stopped placing their trust in flesh and blood politicians and idealists who don't have the power or the means, and lack the true vision to set humanity on the path of success and redemption.

All has failed, communism has failed, they preached for a world free of God and what they got was a world free of them. Nazism has failed miserably, it was built on human made lies, based on superiorities, and the Germans have murdered millions of innocent people, and they have brought upon themselves wars and defeats, and they have also attached their name in the annals of wicked history for eternity.

Democracy is also not in the best of shape, where we see in front of our eyes, that when a country is built primarily on the dollar, or any other currency, it wont have such a bright future, Sadly, America's and Europe's over-dependence on economy and money turned out to be a counterproductive realization, where if you remove the money, everything else falls to the ground. But a nation that places faith and morality at its core foundations can survive even the most brutal crises, be it economic or otherwise.

So in short, you place your trust for the future on things that have never really worked before, and that is just futile and unfortunate.

I did provide you with some examples from history of great civilizations (King Solomon)who chose to listen to the word of God, they have become the masters of the world, the rulers, the leaders, and the most powerful and most successful ever. This teaches us that been close to God and following his ways, generates success in all areas of life, and there is no need to follow the dark path of some individuals who don't know anything about true spirituality, and who choose to deceive their followers to believe that they have all the answers for all the world's problems.

I tried to warn you about these people, but time and again you still trust them, you know who I'm talking about, the Libs, the Progs and the communists.

My lens is EXTREMELY CLEAR, it is you who has a foggy lens.  Human beings have to interpret the will of God and I follow those which will I feel are the closest.  No King has been appointed by God since biblical times so we only have the ideas of man in the realm of politics.  So we should choose those who are the most moral, that do not judge others and offer a better life for everyone.

That's why I said, that its much better to talk to you about cooking and baking, then politics, at least in those areas we'll find some common ground and actually we'll learn from each other.

Agreed 

[Saul]

Teresa,

Do you like cooking?

[Teresa]

Isn't it a total waste to spend your time talking to someone who just can't see how wrong she is?

You know sometimes the beliefs of some individuals are so misguided and so shockingly twisted and so categorically wrong, that you begin to question their intelligence, saying :"If that person was intelligent he or she would have never believed these nonsense".

I am not wrong, I do my research and I have studied politics for almost five decades.  Everyone has different opinions on everything, but some things are universally humane and these are the moral ideas you fight with.

Isn't it a total waste to spend your time talking to someone who just can't see how wrong she is?

That is how I feel about your weird often bizarre ideas.

Listening to Teresa's diatribe about terrorism and economy, I wonder to myself to how she was swept by the powers of darkness and lies. For its very difficult for me to associate intelligence to this kind of people who choose to believe these nonsense.

No diatribe but reality, do you ever read anything except right-wing propaganda?  I actually think we should capture Osama bin Laden and bring him to trial for his crimes of 9/11 and shut down Al-Qaeda for good!  I believe everyone who wants to work DESERVES a job.  If you call that nonsense you are possessed by the devil.

Yet on the other hand, I know that she is not the only one, and in fact there are a great number of people who too were swept by the power of darkness, unfortunately many intelligent people are among the swept.

I believe you are one from the dark side, I am in the light with only love for my fellowman and the wish to bring back a moral America.

But I would rather spend my time to those who want to actually see the truth and change their minds, and have an open mind about it, at least with them I have some hope that they can be saved from the darkness they are living in, but Teresa has not demonstrated to me that she is interested to leave her rock solid attachment to her flawed beliefs. Therefore continuing talking to her about these topics will lead nowhere.

I have a very open mind, and read all political persuasions.  Your mind is so CLOSED it is unbelievable, it is rock solid. 

I think that I and some others here have made some logical and solid arguments for her that should have shaken the foundations of her beliefs, but all I see as time  goes by is more zealotry and attachment.

I read them all and even ask for better alternatives, none have been offered so far.  My beliefs have not been shaken by any of the BS you and other extreme right-wingers have spewed. 

However Josquin des Prez did give proof to my belief that Pornography is not only morally wrong but a communist plot as well.  see The Communist Takeover Of America - 45 Declared Goals
Now I know who is sponsoring Pornography, sex and violence in movies, and dirty words, violent descriptions of murder and rape in music.   I knew someone was behind this crap, it's the Communists. 

21. Gain control of key positions in radio, TV, and motion pictures.

22. Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all forms of artistic expression. An American Communist cell was told to "eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings, substitute shapeless, awkward and meaningless forms."

23. Control art critics and directors of art museums. "Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art."

24. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them "censorship" and a violation of free speech and free press.

25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV.

So my preference for banning all forms of obscenity is not so wrong after-all as many here are claiming.  It is anti-communist and pro-America.

This kind of behavior should lead every person who talks to her about these topics to ask:

"Is it really beneficial for me to spend my time explaining things to someone who is not really interested in moving a single millimeter from her positions?"

Well, I have asked myself this question, and I came to the conclusion, that discussing these topics with her is a total waste of time.

I know it is a waste of time discussing politics with you, still I had to made these corrections about your misstatements and mistruths about my positions.  I have studied politics and I don't need things explained to me, especially by those who have no idea of the concepts they are trying to discredit. 

[Teresa]

Teresa,

Do you like cooking?

Not a lot but my dishes are usually very tasty. 

[Saul]

Not a lot but my dishes are usually very tasty. 

What are some of your best dishes?

[Daidalos]

This thread has reached entirely new levels of bizarre...

[kishnevi]

I am against gay marriage for the same reasons JdP stated. I think abortion should be legal only in a few cases (i.e. rape or when the mother's life is threatened) and it should be paid by the person who wants it (or her relatives, or private charities) not by the taxpayers at large. In sexual matters I believe that what two or more people do in their private home is no business for the government but I also believe government has a duty to promote and encourage public decency and prevent and discourage public immorality. In short, I am for personal responsibility and restraint and freedom under law. How authoritarian is that?

The portion I bolded in your quote is where the authoritarianism lies.

A libertarian would say that government has not such duty.  In the libertarian conception, government exists for the sake of protecting you from aggression (foreign invasion and would be criminals) whether that aggression involves force (say, an mugger) or fraud (say, a Ponzi schemer), and allows an impartial means of resolving any disputes you may have with other people (IOW, a court system)--and nothing more.  If you think something is against public decency or is immoral, then you should be free to persuade others not to do it, but government does not have any legitimate right to stop them--and they must be free to ignore you if they so wish.  The only limit on personal freedom is that no one has the right to do something which harms another, and if they do so, they must be prepared to give appropriate compensation if the injured party so desires.

For the government to enforce any moral duty beyond what I have just outlined  is to move in an authoritarian direction.

[jowcol]

This thread has reached entirely new levels of bizarre...

[Florestan]

• I grew from libertarianism to progressivism.

IOW, you grew from a right-wing utopia to a left-wing one.

[Florestan]

The portion I bolded in your quote is where the authoritarianism lies.

Thanks for responding.

A libertarian would say that government has not such duty.  In the libertarian conception, government exists for the sake of protecting you from aggression (foreign invasion and would be criminals) whether that aggression involves force (say, an mugger) or fraud (say, a Ponzi schemer), and allows an impartial means of resolving any disputes you may have with other people (IOW, a court system)--and nothing more.

I am not a libertarian since I reject any utopian scheme for the betterment of humanity. Libertarianism (as well as communism) goes against human nature, experience and history. Maybe one can run a village or a small town by libertarian principles, although I doubt it would last long --- but an entire state organized along hardcore libertarian principles never existed and never will, because libertarian ideology is self-defeating.

The only limit on personal freedom is that no one has the right to do something which harms another, and if they do so, they must be prepared to give appropriate compensation if the injured party so desires.

The very libertarian principle in bold above spells the doom to libertarianism.

Prostitution is highly harmful to many other people than the two involved. Their families, for start, where the man's wife, besides being exposed to higher STD risks will most likely suffer psychological traumas upon finding his husband's proclivities; then the taxpayers who must pay for their STD or psychological healthcare (IOW, a completely innocent third-party must pay for the irresponsibility of another party); finally, the society at large which will witness rampant broken families and higher costs for healthcare.

The same goes for pornography, with its accompanying chain of broken families, psychological traumas, decreased work productivity, increased addiction treatment costs, all harmful for the society at large. The same goes for drugs, which adds to the above increased criminality and violence.

There is something called "the law of unintended consequences" but libertarians are too blinded by their ideology to see anywhere beyond their narrow view of man and society.

For the government to enforce any moral duty beyond what I have just outlined  is to move in an authoritarian direction.

Human experience and history --- again, things that libertarians have no use for --- show extremely clear that each and any government under the sun that was even moderately succesful had to promote and protect some code of moral standards and did so by discouraging or punishing its violation.

If you think something is against public decency or is immoral, then you should be free to persuade others not to do it, but government does not have any legitimate right to stop them--and they must be free to ignore you if they so wish.

So a policeman has no legitimate right to stop two or more people engaged in public sexual intercourse? The judge has no legitimate right to fine or jail those people? The same policeman has no right to stop people who throw garbage in the street? The classification board has no right to label a movie as X or R and prevent its unrestricted broadcast? The mayorship of a city has no legitimate right to shut down any pub that by the constant noise and rude behavior of the customers is a nuisance to the neighborhood?

[71 dB]

Yes, just because they use "sex" to sell products does not make it right.  The media objectified a women's body and then turned it into a way to sell products.  This is MORALLY WRONG!  Products should be sold on their own merits. 

To my understanding women (and men) in porn industry are totally okay with this and are paid well. So, whether it's moral or not is a question on your own morality.

Prostitution is a different issue. It is often linked to criminals and the poor girls are forced to sell themselves on the streets. So, let the porn be and concentrate on the problems of prostitution. That's where the real problems are.

I feel that my mind is objectified when I am working because I can't be as creative/personal as I want to be. I suffer from it.  Why should bodies be protected and not minds? I have to accept my mind is objectified because I am paid for it.

[Florestan]

To my understanding women (and men) in porn industry are totally okay with this and are paid well.

So are professional killers and drug dealers. So what?

[71 dB]

So are professional killers and drug dealers. So what?

So what? I don't know about your moral but I find killing other people most immoral!

[Florestan]

So what? I don't know about your moral but I find killing other people most immoral!

Exactly. The fact that someone is okay with, and well paid for, doing something doesn't mean that that something should be permitted to proliferate, such as your post seemed to imply.

[71 dB]

Exactly. The fact that someone is okay with, and well paid for, doing something doesn't mean that that something should be permitted to proliferate, such as your post seemed to imply.

Porstars don't kill anyone. Or they might of course as any people but killing other people is not part of producing porn.