Mystery Orchestra

[MishaK]

Oh dear... what is it that ticks you off so easily and fills your mind with nonsensical assumptions? As I said before, I am not trying to "test" you. What did I do that is so aggressive? Are you suffering from persecution anxiety again? I am just curious to see what you listen for when you don't know a priori what the band is. We all concentrate on different markers that for us define a given orchestral sound. If you are genuinely interested in the mutually educational purpose of this undertaking, then surely you will see the point in that, no? There is really no need for you to be so patronizing and condescending. It undermines your otherwise really interesting posts.

[Greta]

I also love the Bychov recording. The build, the pacing caught my ear, but also the orchestral playing which is a very high level. The strings are overly sweet at times, but otherwise, it's fantastic.

I liked Bonus 2 a lot too, and #5 had its merits, so I guess I like Solti's Strauss okay. The CSO sounds different under Boulez than Solti, #4 it's less in your face, they sound beautiful, and I prefer this sound to their sound in #5.

I have done that myself very often, with results which were very telling for me myself. Sometimes I was spot on, sometimes surprisingly off. In every case, I learned a lot about my perception of music and sound. That is the main point.

Yes, M has, in a game of mine at RMCR. Out of 3, he was spot on with one and made very astute observations about the other two. I planned to get back around to hosting another of those games, but never did. I would like to in the future here, perhaps after MO16 is over. 

[MishaK]

I liked Bonus 2 a lot too, and #5 had its merits, so I guess I like Solti's Strauss okay. The CSO sounds different under Boulez than Solti, #4 it's less in your face, they sound beautiful, and I prefer this sound to their sound in #5.

I fully agree with that. The orchestra changed a lot (those uncanny balances between strings and winds!), but Solti also changed a bit as well and mellowed out. I generally like his later recordings much better than his earlier ones. That BPO Strauss disc also has a very fine Till Eulenspiegel, BTW, that is wonderfully transparent.

[M forever]

What did I do that is so aggressive? Are you suffering from persecution anxiety again?

Again? You have no idea what I "suffer from" or not. It is none of your business either. What  primitive and silly cheap shot. This kind of "half hidden" cowardly verbal attack is why I ignored you on this forum before. I came to a point where I had to that on another forum. Now I have to do it again. There are no more "ignore" buttons here, but I can at least ask you to stay out of "my" threads, and you could respect that. Don't boter replying to any of my posts elsewhere either, please.
You know a few things about music, but not nearly as much as you think, and you don't have the self-criticism needed to improve that, question yourself, and lead a real discussion. I gave you a few tips and pointed out things you said which were objectively not correct, that always ticks you off. Not my problem, though. So *please*, just stop replying here. I am asking you nicely. I don't want to lock the thread. You are not the center of the world. Let's keep it open for other people who are worth having a discussion with.

Bye.

[M forever]

Yes, M has, in a game of mine at RMCR. Out of 3, he was spot on with one and made very astute observations about the other two. I planned to get back around to hosting another of those games, but never did. I would like to in the future here, perhaps after MO16 is over. 

Thanks for "confirming" that, but that is really not "necessary". I don't have to justify to "O" why I host these threads. He knows very well that I "scored" very high in some other people's blind listening threads because he took part in them, too, and he can start one of his own to "test" me and everybody else anytime. Maybe I will swing by that thread and guess "wrong" and then he finally "wins". Which he never could before, because he never scored that high himself. Sometimes very close, sometimes spot on, but often totally "wrong". But who cares? This is not about him, as much as that may pain him, it is about the blind listening and discussion.

Please host another game (but also please, next time with clips which are more diverse in musical material than the ones you used before, the "Classical Symphony" is great but it doesn't offer that much opportunities to "take a good look"at the orchestra). I would like that. You don't *have* to have tons of comparison clips. One or two are enough to start. Or even just one. If it is an orchestral piece which allows you to hear all the different sections well, which has a number of contrasting musical elements which can give you "clues", then that is totally enough for an interesting "blind" thread. And please, no less than 320kbps!

I also love the Bychov recording. The build, the pacing caught my ear, but also the orchestral playing which is a very high level. The strings are overly sweet at times, but otherwise, it's fantastic.

Did you like the orchestral playing and recorded sound better in this than the original clip?

I liked Bonus 2 a lot too, and #5 had its merits, so I guess I like Solti's Strauss okay. The CSO sounds different under Boulez than Solti, #4 it's less in your face, they sound beautiful, and I prefer this sound to their sound in #5.

I think most people would. the CSO/Boulez simply is much better, and much better played than the CSO/Solti. Although I do kind of like the rugged, edgy, expressionist quality of the Solti recording. Still, it gets old pretty fast, and there is more in your face highlighting going on than any depth of texture.

I found it interesting that some people hated the orchestral playing in the OSR clip and got hung up on two or three minor blemishes when the playing in this clip is so much more "rough" and uneven, often very unbalanced and just going from one moment to the next, without much musial context. And from a purely orchestral technique point of view, it is by far the worst of the three clips. Interesting that those who were bothered by the slightly sour intonation between the 4 OSR trumpets in their first entry didn't mind or even mention (or even notice?) how badly tuned both first tutti entries are in the Solti clip. The woodwind are very badly tuned. And what about the tuning between the contrabassoon and the trumpets before the last tutti entry? What interval is that? Is that supposed to be C-C?
Later, the solo string play OK, but they have a very wiry sound not good enough for whatever a real "top" orchestra should be. In "Leidenschaften", some of the horns have noticeable trouble playing the fast and rhythmically complicated passages. Some do OK, some just somehow muffledly regurgitate the notes, with curious on/off effects as the elements wander between the individual players. Here, the OSR play with a big and noble sound, and they play everything very precise and in long, musical phrases. Later, at the end of the clip, the really sour intonation in the solo clarinet. And there is some clarinet playing later in the same recording which will make the milk sour in your fridge.

Yet, that doesn't seem to have bothered many. Why? Because the recording is so harshly "brilliant" and in your face, because that makes it so "exciting"?

[M forever]

Active MO players only: PM me if you want the Inbal and/or the Bychkov recording.

[MishaK]

Again? You have no idea what I "suffer from" or not. It is none of your business either. What  primitive and silly cheap shot. This kind of "half hidden" cowardly verbal attack is why I ignored you on this forum before. I came to a point where I had to that on another forum. Now I have to do it again. There are no more "ignore" buttons here, but I can at least ask you to stay out of "my" threads, and you could respect that. Don't boter replying to any of my posts elsewhere either, please.
You know a few things about music, but not nearly as much as you think, and you don't have the self-criticism needed to improve that, question yourself, and lead a real discussion. I gave you a few tips and pointed out things you said which were objectively not correct, that always ticks you off. Not my problem, though. So *please*, just stop replying here. I am asking you nicely. I don't want to lock the thread. You are not the center of the world. Let's keep it open for other people who are worth having a discussion with.

Look, I said "We need to get you to do some blind testing." I even added a smiley for the avoidance of doubt. And you followed with completely unwarranted this tirade. When was I even "ticked off" about anything here? If you had half the self criticism you accuse others of lacking, you wouldn't have gone down this road at all. As I said before, I wasn't challenging you to a duel or anything. I am not trying to compete with you and I have no idea why you feel so threatened when I post perfectly inoffensive posts. I didn't follow the prior RMCR threads where you allegedly participated in blind testing. I am merely interested in what you pick up on when you don't have prior knowledge of the orchestra. You went from explicitly inviting me by email to join your MO threads at RMCR to these nonsensical tirades. Whatever, dude. You need to take a deep breath every now and then. The world indeed doesn't revolve around your ideals of orchestral sound. On blind listening, most people didn't like the OSR clip for the somewhat insecure playing but liked both of the CSO clips you posted. I suppose that "ticked you off" which is why you are mad at me for being the first to point to the execution problems in the OSR clip (as if I had invented them) so now you had to explain to everyone why exactly the CSO sucks. And that, BTW, is obviously the main reason you want me out of your other threads now: you'd prefer other people not to be "biased" by my observations of execution problems, since you are trying to convince people of the superiority of some of your favorite ensembles. Clearly you think you have better ears than anyone else here but you don't want to participate in a blind listening comparison yourself? Again: whatever.

And again: for the avoidance of doubt, to spell it out clearly and avoid any ambiguity: I greatly appreciate your participation here, your knowledge and the perspective you bring to discussions here. I am not competing against you, I am not ganging up on you, nor am I trying to irritate you or get you banned (I find the whole concept of banning very childish). If you on the other hand can't deal with disagreement, that's another matter. But it certainly doesn't give you much standing to lecture others on self-criticism. We probably will never agree on the CSO, but we don't have to.

[M forever]

How do I lock this thread? I thought I could lock a thread which I started myself. But I don't see a button for that anywhere. I didn't read what he said, but apparently O Mensch can not respect my nicely worded request to stay away from my Mystery threads. A pity, I don't want to lock it yet, but what can I do?

Moderators - can you please lock the thread? Thanks.

MO players - again, PM me if you are interested in either the Inbal or Bychkov recording.

Thanks again y'all for playing.

Oh, I see the check box for locking the thread now.