Crappy Taste--Period

[Teresa]

Teresa,

Merely because you think some composers wrote "degenerate music" as part of an evil farce to seduce listeners pretending to be intellectual does not establish your opinion as a fact - and it would not matter if you quoted dozens of paragraphs from your blog supporting your opinion.

OK here are 10,600 hits on google (most not written by me) for Second Viennese School degenerate music

[Sid]

Absolutely, it changes. As we get older, hopefully, we're much more open to newer experiences. A year ago I didn't think I would be enjoying, for example, Berg or Pettersson, as much as I do. I had a closed mind and wasn't willing to take the necessary step in order to understand their works. Now, I can't get enough of either.

Yes, it's all about being open, within reasonable bounds, of course. There are some things that I really like at first listen, there are many more others that take repeated listening (& some reading and thinking, discussing) to appreciate more. Sometimes, it can be confusing, because I may immediately connect with a certain composer's work, but then not so much with his/her other works. We live in a culture of the sound-bite, the quick 20-second grab (in the media), everything is based on instant gratification. However, I think that great art (like say a good wine) is meant to be different from that, to be savoured slowly.

If anybody is the king of "bad taste" it is me. My tastes stink!

Yes, your taste is horrible, but I am the most "degenerate" here, and proud of it!!!

[Sid]

OK here are 10,600 hits on google (most not written by me) for Second Viennese School degenerate music

Is that how you get "reputable" information - on google? Are you joking? If you do that, then there are heaps of pro-terrorist websites, hard core pornography, pro-anorexia sites, etc. which also probably get many hits - so does this legitimise the objectionable views on those sites? I agree with the others, I don't think you are being very logical at all. Critics in the past labelled Monteverdi's, Beethoven's, Mahler's music in these ways in the past. The Nazis also banned Mendelssohn's (& Gershwin's) music, for being Jewish. Some composer (I'm not sure, it could have been Carl Orff) re-wrote an "Aryanised" version of Midsummer Night's Dream. Do you agree with that as well, even though Mendelssohn & Gershwin wrote music in the traditional "tonal" style you seem to irrationally worship? What the Nazis did had NOTHING to do with the music, it had EVERYTHING to do with their TOXIC views on religion, politics, and so called racial purity. Or are you one of the millions of Americans who don't even know (or even worse, deny) that the Holocaust actually happened?(not to derail this thread, I'm probably just feeding this person's irrationality, so I will stop even though I could go on and on refuting their silly illogical and plain wrong arguments)...

[greg]

Is that how you get "reputable" information - on google? Are you joking? If you do that, then there are heaps of pro-terrorist websites, hard core pornography, pro-anorexia sites, etc. which also probably get many hits - so does this legitimise the objectionable views on those sites? I agree with the others, I don't think you are being very logical at all. Critics in the past labelled Monteverdi's, Beethoven's, Mahler's music in these ways in the past. The Nazis also banned Mendelssohn's (& Gershwin's) music, for being Jewish. Some composer (I'm not sure, it could have been Carl Orff) re-wrote an "Aryanised" version of Midsummer Night's Dream. Do you agree with that as well, even though Mendelssohn & Gershwin wrote music in the traditional "tonal" style you seem to irrationally worship? What the Nazis did had NOTHING to do with the music, it had EVERYTHING to do with their TOXIC views on religion, politics, and so called racial purity. Or are you one of the millions of Americans who don't even know (or even worse, deny) that the Holocaust actually happened?(not to derail this thread, I'm probably just feeding this person's irrationality, so I will stop even though I could go on and on refuting their silly illogical and plain wrong arguments)...

I scrolled down the list of websites... not only was her link on the first page, but I took a glance and you just see stuff like "Schoenberg, Webern, Berg... The Nazis labeled some music as degenerate" or whatever. I don't see what the point of that is. And if there are any articles/posts out there like Teresa's, you make a good point regarding that. I'm sure if I googled something really bad, there would be more results- so what is the point bringing up that number?

[Teresa]

Degenerate music is only a term given by the Nazis to music they deemed unacceptable. This was during WWII Teresa. In case you didn't know, this is 2010. This term is no longer applicable in the music world today since the Nazis were defeated. By your logic, you're siding with a group of people who murdered Jews.

Again...continue living in your bubble.

In the case of ugly degenerate art and music the Nazis were spot on correct as these abbreviations have not changed one iota over the decades, they are every bit as deprived as they were when they were first painted and first written. 

The Nazis were wrong to include Jews, Blacks and Homosexuals who wrote tonal music in their definition of Entarte Musik, only that music that was truly degenerate should have been included. 

The Nazis were wrong about most things, but they were right in labeling degenerate art and music for what it is, it is IMHO anti-human and a scam.  And degenerate music still exists long after the Nazis were dead and buried. 

The Nazis also banned Mendelssohn's (& Gershwin's) music, for being Jewish.

The original definition of Entarte Musik of being anti-art ugly degenerate abominations is the correct one, the Nazis used the cleaning up of art as an excuse to persecute Jews, Blacks and Homosexuals even if their art was real and not an abomination. 

Or are you one of the millions of Americans who don't even know (or even worse, deny) that the Holocaust actually happened?

No the Holocaust happened and the Nazis leaders were evil.   

[Sid]

The Nazis were wrong about most things, but they were right in labeling degenerate art and music for what it is, it is IMHO anti-human and a scam.  And degenerate music still exists long after the Nazis were dead and buried. 

I think we'll agree to disagree on this one (basically everyone else here that has posted disagrees with you as well & I think that this in fact may be very significant)...

No the Holocaust happened and the Nazis leaders were evil.

Well I'm glad you're not yet another one of those *&%#ed Holocaust deniers. But I find it strange that you would use the Nazis' ideology to back up your arguments. For example, I also think that dictators like Stalin, Amin, Mobutu, Pol Pot, Soeharto, Mao, Franco, etc. were basically rotten apples, but I wouldn't use some of their loopy and warped ideas to back up my own arguments. Doing so just doesn't make sense to me & if you know that Hitler was evil, then why do you use his ideas to back up your argument? Again, you're not being logical here...

[Philoctetes]

Man, she is trolling you guys hardcore. 

[Mirror Image]

Darth Vader: The moderators will lock this thread, my master?
The Emperor: Yes, Lord Vader...I have forseen it.

[Teresa]

I find it strange that you would use the Nazis' ideology to back up your arguments. 

I didn't others did, degenerate art and music exists separate of the Nazis, as a matter of fact the Nazis could not have foreseen the most degenerate music of all, Rap music glorifying cop killing, murder for fun, and rape and torture of women. 

Degenerate music DID NOT go away just because their are no more Nazis.  Just because the Nazis were monsters does not mean they did EVERYTHING wrong.  No one can be wrong 100% of the time, not even tyrants.

[Teresa]

Man, she is trolling you guys hardcore. 

Sorry, I didn't bring up Schoenberg, Webern or Berg that was Brahmsian Reply #101

"Good.  So now, you can now agree that anyone here who enjoys Schoenberg, Webern or Berg's music doesn't have bad taste in music."

And I answered Teresa Reply #104

"I never claimed anyone liking composers I do not of having bad taste.  My problem with the three so-called composers you list is with their non-music and their negative influence on composers that followed, taking them down the wrong path so to speak.   I do believe that such degeneracy should be banned as I believe ALL degenerate art should be banned.  But since I believe in democracy, I have to wait until the majority of Americans are also fed up with anti-moral filth for my wishes to be fulfilled.   However I would NEVER call anyone liking degenerate art of having bad taste.

In the case of the 2nd Viennese School I wrote an article on their negative influences on classical music: The near destruction of Classical Music by the Second Viennese School"

And the rest is history, no trolling involved. 

[Bulldog]

I didn't others did, degenerate art and music exists separate of the Nazis, as a matter of fact the Nazis could not have foreseen the most degenerate music of all, Rap music glorifying cop killing, murder for fun, and rape and torture of women. 

Fun murders, rape and torture were the stock and trade of the Nazis.  Most of them would have loved a 1930's version of rap music while they performed their hideous activities.

You just don't get the big picture - a group of degenerates decide what constitutes degenerate music.  These are the footsteps you want to follow?  Degenerates are not worthy to make decisions that apply to others; they can't even make decent decisions for themselves.

[Teresa]

Fun murders, rape and torture were the stock and trade of the Nazis.  Most of them would have loved a 1930's version of rap music while they performed their hideous activities.

You just don't get the big picture - a group of dengenerates decide what constitutes degenerate music.  These are the footsteps you want to follow?

You are still not understanding!  Degenerate art and music exist separate of the Nazis, they just capitalized on it for their own purposes. 

Degenerate art and music has NOTHING to do with nazism, understand?

[Bulldog]

You are still not understanding!  Degenerate art and music exist separate of the Nazis, they just capitalized on it for their own purposes. 

And you want to do exactly what the Nazis did - define degenerate art and ban it. 

[Teresa]

And you want to do exactly what the Nazis did - define degenerate art and ban it.

No I want to do what American USED TO do, ban degenerate anti-social music, degenerate art, pornographic literature and porn itself.  It has nothing whatsoever to do with the Nazis.  NOTHING!!!!!!!   

Degenerate art and music has NOTHING to do with nazism, understand?

[Teresa]

So let me get this straight, you don't like the Nazis (or Hitler), but you continue to believe their idealogy about degenerate music?

IT IS NOT THEIR IDEOLOGY! They just capitalized on it's existence, which you can see with your own eyes and hear with your own ears. 

Degenerate art and music has NOTHING to do with nazism, understand?

[Teresa]

Mirror Image I have read the Wikipedia article before and many more articles on Degenerate art.  If there were never any Germans or any NAZIS degenerate art and music would still exist.  It would not magically disappear, that is not possible.

Degenerate art and degenerate music exists of it's own accord.  BTW the Nazis are wrong it is not based on Race or creed.  It is solely based of the corrupting influence of it's anti-people, ugly non-art non-music and pornographic nature.  It damns itself, it does not needs to Nazis to damn it.

[Teresa]

Wrong, there would have been no degenerate art had it not been for the Nazis and their own ideologies.

WRONG!

As I have already stated RAP MUSIC glorifying cop killing, murder for fun and the rape and torture of women is MODERN degenerate music that the Nazis could know nothing whatsoever about and it EXISTS!!!!!!  PROOF POSITIVE THAT DEGENERATE ART AND MUSIC EXIST OF THEIR OWN ACCORD WITHOUT SACTION BY ANY GOVERNMENT, MUCH LESS NAZIS.

Are you really trying to say degenerate avant-garde classical music, degenerate Rock music and degenerate Rap music would never have been written if the Nazis never existed.  THAT IS INSANE!

UNDERSTAND YET?

Even the United States Government knows of some degenerate music and puts warning stickers on them, it is only a matter of time before they discover the degenerate so-called classical music. 



Many, many governments besides the United States, Germany and Russia know of degenerate music. 

[Teresa]

Shouldn't you be heiling Hitler right now?

No Hitler has nothing to do with this conversation as far as I know he didn't ever write any degenerate music or painted any degenerate art.  Besides that evil man killed six million of my fellow Jews!

[Mirror Image]

Daffy says this thread is headed for lockdown. Oh, and you're despicable.

[Bulldog]

WRONG!


Are you really trying to say degenerate avant-garde classical music, degenerate Rock music and degenerate Rap music would never have been written if the Nazis never existed.  THAT IS INSANE!

UNDERSTAND YET?

I don't consider any of the above types of music to be degenerate.  Actually, I do not recognize the term "degenerate music" to have any meaning or make any sense, although folks like Teresa use it to engage in one of their favorite pastimes - creating fantasies in Censorship Heaven.