Bruckner vs Sibelius

[Mirror Image]

Good to see Bruckner beat Sibelius. Bruckner's music is continuing to gain more popularity as the years go by. There's so much to his music. He's by far my favorite 19th Century composer next to Tchaikovsky.

[Sid]

I bought into this thread but now think that it's actually a bit silly to compare them. They were born four decades apart. Comparing Bruckner with Sibelius is a bit like comparing Prokofiev with Xenakis...

[DavidW]

I bought into this thread but now think that it's actually a bit silly to compare them. They were born four decades apart. Comparing Bruckner with Sibelius is a bit like comparing Prokofiev with Xenakis...

The point of the thread wasn't to compare the two though... just saying.

[Sid]

Well isn't comparing what people inevitably do when threads like this pop up? (Especially with a poll attached) I know it's for fun, but I was just pointing out how questionable the whole exercise is, really. If we are to compare composers, it's more useful to do so with those of roughly the same generation or culture (eg. Brahms & Bruckner would have made more sense)...

[DavidW]

I know it's for fun, but I was just pointing out how questionable the whole exercise is, really.

But that was why I created the thread, that is what I said in my opening post.  I made it Sibelius vs Bruckner not to compare them but to first draw posters in and then show them Sibelius' quote.  I see that it failed due to posters like you, who just skip to the end to post.

[Scarpia]

I bought into this thread but now think that it's actually a bit silly to compare them. They were born four decades apart. Comparing Bruckner with Sibelius is a bit like comparing Prokofiev with Xenakis...

Well, I'm not sure what the dates have to do with the silliness of this comparison.  I voted for Sibelius, although that may be somewhat arbitrary.  When I listen to a symphony of Bruckner, there is no doubt in my mind what it "is about" and what, in an admittedly abstract sense, Bruckner is "saying."   When I listen to one of those Bruckner works again I may hear something interesting in a new interpretation, but work itself it what it is.  The late works by Sibelius have a certain enigmatic character, which brings me back again and again to perhaps hear something entirely different there.   It is not as sometimes happens with a minor composer whose works seem to lack a strong voice.  These works of Sibelius are powerful, but the power runs in complex, ambiguous ways.  I don't think there is any music written that I think is better than Sibelius.

[Sid]

I actually did read the original post with the quote, which I thought was quite interesting. I can't care less what the outcome of the poll is, I'm more interested in the discussion. I was just trying to point out that, ultimately, people will compare - and those comparisons will include many generalisations which suggest that people see this as a kind of competition. I hope I haven't come across as doing that(?)...

[DavidW]

Oh alright I'm sorry for being cranky Sid.  It's just one of those days.

[Gurn Blanston]

I voted for Karl Ditters because of the 4 choices I'd rather listen to him. Banana is much to fresh and modern for me. Bruckner, bless his heart, makes me sleep or just lets my mind wander. Sibelius, eh!

So yes, Ditters IS The Man!



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Now playing:
Sviatoslav Richter - Chopin Op 54 #4 Scherzo in E - Presto

[abidoful]

These works of Sibelius are powerful, but the power runs in complex, ambiguous ways.  I don't think there is any music written that I think is better than Sibelius.

It's funny, Sibelius's music  seems ro have that effect on some people--- he once said of his own music that "at first it will be underestimated, but at the end overestimated".

[Sid]

My impression is (& correct me if I'm wrong) that some fans of Sibelius feel that they are on some kind of crusade to promote his music. On another classical music board, one big fan (& it wasn't Tapkaara) said something to the effect that anyone who can't appreciate Sibelius' music has deaf ears. I think that this is basically rubbish. If someone can't appreciate a composer, it means just that (they either can't, don't want to make the effort, or have tried and failed - simple). I'm ok with that. Some people get very defensive when you talk about Sibelius' - how should I say it? - faults (which he had, just like any othe composer). For example, I look at the violin concerto and hear a brilliant and innovative first movement, and two movements that seem formulaic and 'tacked on' in comparison. This is the only example I can think of from my personal experience. I have read that most of his solo piano music was pretty substandard and aimed at the domestic market, but this is just hearsay, as I haven't heard any of those works. What I'm saying is that on some of these boards, Sibelius fans come across as a bit stuck up and all superior about their taste as a result of liking this "god's" music. I don't think that this attitude is doing the composer's music any favours, to tell you the truth (just the opposite?)...

[Scarpia]

My impression is (& correct me if I'm wrong) that some fans of Sibelius feel that they are on some kind of crusade to promote his music. On another classical music board, one big fan (& it wasn't Tapkaara) said something to the effect that anyone who can't appreciate Sibelius' music has deaf ears. I think that this is basically rubbish. If someone can't appreciate a composer, it means just that (they either can't, don't want to make the effort, or have tried and failed - simple). I'm ok with that. Some people get very defensive when you talk about Sibelius' - how should I say it? - faults (which he had, just like any othe composer). For example, I look at the violin concerto and hear a brilliant and innovative first movement, and two movements that seem formulaic and 'tacked on' in comparison. This is the only example I can think of from my personal experience. I have read that most of his solo piano music was pretty substandard and aimed at the domestic market, but this is just hearsay, as I haven't heard any of those works. What I'm saying is that on some of these boards, Sibelius fans come across as a bit stuck up and all superior about their taste as a result of liking this "god's" music. I don't think that this attitude is doing the composer's music any favours, to tell you the truth (just the opposite?)...

What does what "some Sibelius fans" (unnamed) say have to do with the music of Sibelius? 

[Brian]

anyone who can't appreciate Sibelius' music has deaf ears. I think that this is basically rubbish.

Speaking as one of the huge Sibelius fans you accuse, I find the quoted part above absolutely true. But not only is it perfectly legitimate not to appreciate his music, it is legitimate to appreciate some of it and not get others. I am one of those Sibelius lovers you accuse of arrogance and evangelism (I think unfairly), but there are quite a few works by Sibelius which still leave me totally unmoved or even confused.

[Grazioso]

It's helpful not to confuse the music with the listener (or proselytizer). I used to dote on Bruckner's work; now, not so much. Nothing has changed about the music, just me.

[Chaszz]

" Sibelius, eh! "


"Pay no attention to what the critics say... Remember, a statue has never been set up in honor of a critic!" - Jean Sibelius

[DavidW]

It's helpful not to confuse the music with the listener (or proselytizer). I used to dote on Bruckner's work; now, not so much. Nothing has changed about the music, just me.

It's also important not to confuse talk classical with our far superior forum.  Which is what I think Sid has done.

This forum has many Sibelius fans, but we have no militant Sibelius fans here.

[abidoful]

I am one of those Sibelius lovers you accuse of arrogance and evangelism

Can you use word evangelism here? Just wondering... and what do you  mean by it? To preach i guess..?

[Florestan]

Good to see Bruckner beat Sibelius. Bruckner's music is continuing to gain more popularity as the years go by. There's so much to his music. He's by far my favorite 19th Century composer next to Tchaikovsky.

Tchaikovsky and Bruckner are galaxies apart. How one can love them both is beyond me. IMO Tchaikovsky would win the poll by a very wide margin. 

*runs away*

[Grazioso]

Tchaikovsky and Bruckner are galaxies apart. How one can love them both is beyond me. IMO Tchaikovsky would win the poll by a very wide margin. 

*runs away*

It's good you've run away Because you're about to get deluged with responses pointing out how easy it is to enjoy disparate composers. Seriously, to me it seems almost like some kind of joke or mental aberration when someone professes to have only one extremely narrow interest in music. That's a character flaw 

[Gurn Blanston]

Couldn't have said it better myself.   0:)