Composers That Are Linked To Your Soul

[Guido]

Puccini

Don't admit it in public!  Does he really feel like a kindred spirit across the ages, whose music you connect with on the deepest level and are completely fascinated by? I'm genuinely surprised at this one!

[Scarpia]

Not all of Brian's music is 'gargantuan', nor did he choose to be unperformed. Not every artist is adept at pushing his works. Brian wasn't. Neither was he 'breaking the mould' in the way Beethoven did, or in his day Stravinsky, Schoenberg, Varèse and others. Brian was creating his very own synthesis of all the music he loved, filtered through his own sensibility, adding to the tradition in the process. I don't blame him for not being successful for so much of his career. I listen to the music, and I am thrilled and moved. That's all. And that's enough. I know there are greater composers (Beethoven, for one). But Brian speaks to me very personally.

I don't want to give the impression that I wish to depreciate anyone's admiration for Brian's character or their affection for his music.  I'm just drawing attention to the peculiar fact that he seems to be universally praised for attributes which tend to drain away any curiosity I have to hear his music.  (And I'm not one to shy away from new music, probably 75% of my listening these days is to music I have never heard before). 

[Scarpia]

This is a sad attitude to have about any composer. How do you know that Brian didn't want his music performed or to be heard? You have to understand the time frame in which Brian composed his music in. You also have to understand that some composers don't feel the need to appeal to a large group of people. Brian composed honest music. This is not to say that Beethoven didn't either, but to degrade Brian's music because you simply don't understand and/or can't understand why other people wouldn't enjoy it is very ignorant.

I can only express admiration for your telepathic powers, since you claim to have me on "ignore."   

[Mirror Image]

I can only express admiration for your telepathic powers, since you claim to have on "ignore."   

I just couldn't ignore such an ignorant statement like the one you made about Havergal Brian.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

I don't want to give the impression that I wish to depreciate anyone's admiration for Brian's character or their affection for his music.  I'm just drawing attention to the peculiar fact that he seems to be universally praised for attributes which tend to drain away any curiosity I have to hear his music. (And I'm not one to shy away from new music, probably 75% of my listening these days is to music I have never heard before).

That's a pity. I would never praise an artist for persevering in being mediocre! My praise for Brian's 'extramusical' qualities follows on my praise for the actual music. I admit I don't often say why I find Brian's music so good, because it has been part of my lfe for so long. Fortunately Luke has written some excellent posts in the HB thread in which he describes what he loves about the music very well. But in the final analysis, the proof of the pudding is in the eating. There are links to symphonies there. If you only listen to one, you can always say you don't care for it!

[jowcol]

Jowcol, you seem to have taken the role of Don Quixote, doing battle with our resident windmills.  Not a profitable occupation.   

It's not a profitable occupation if one thinks that such threads are "won" or "lost".   They never are,  However, I've always taken pleasure in watching a hamster in a treadmill.

And, as you may have surmised-- work has been slow the last two weeks.  I'm sure I won't have as much time for this little hobby once the holidays are over.

[Scarpia]

I just couldn't ignore such an ignorant statement like the one you made about Havergal Brian.

I don't know what to make of that claim.  If you had me on "ignore," as you pointed out on another thread, how did you know what I said about Brian?  We're back to your telepathic powers, I reckon.

[Mirror Image]

I don't know what to make of that claim.  If you had me on "ignore," as you pointed out on another thread, how did you know what I said about Brian?  We're back to your telepathic powers, I reckon.

And I see that you didn't deny that your statement about Havergal Brian wasn't ignorant. Good to see that you still believe in your absurd point-of-view.

P.S. I can view your posts anytime I want, all I have to do is "show me the post" and lo and behold your irrational statement is there for me to read and laugh at.

[(poco) Sforzando]

Don't admit it in public!  Does he really feel like a kindred spirit across the ages, whose music you connect with on the deepest level and are completely fascinated by? I'm genuinely surprised at this one!

Not the Puccini of Bohème or Butterfly, I admit. The former I've tired of and the latter I totally loathe. (I have in fact never seen a staged production.) But I still have fun attending Tosca, where (as I've written elsewhere) "for two and a half hours I can gorge on a veritable banquet of lust, betrayal, sadism, torture, politics, and murder, all under the beneficent gaze of the Roman Catholic church." There is no "deepest level" with Puccini as he's irremediably shallow, but he can provide considerable enjoyment in well-constructed works like Fanciulla and Schicchi, and there's a flamboyant part of me that can't resist Turandot, for all its sadism and depravity.

[Scarpia]

That's a pity. I would never praise an artist for persevering in being mediocre! My praise for Brian's 'extramusical' qualities follows on my praise for the actual music. I admit I don't often say why I find Brian's music so good, because it has been part of my lfe for so long. Fortunately Luke has written some excellent posts in the HB thread in which he describes what he loves about the music very well. But in the final analysis, the proof of the pudding is in the eating. There are links to symphonies there. If you only listen to one, you can always say you don't care for it!

Another issue seems to be that Brian's body of work seems to fall in the shadow of the "Gothic" and works for orchestra with chorus really don't appeal to me, even by composers that I otherwise love.   I think if a reputable conductor takes on a Brian symphony other than the Gothic I will have a go at it.

[Scarpia]

Not the Puccini of Bohème or Butterfly, I admit. The former I've tired of and the latter I totally loathe. (I have in fact never seen a staged production.) But I still have fun attending Tosca, where (as I've written elsewhere) "for two and a half hours I can gorge on a veritable banquet of lust, betrayal, sadism, torture, politics, and murder, all under the beneficent gaze of the Roman Catholic church." There is no "deepest level" with Puccini as he's irremediably shallow, but he can provide considerable enjoyment in well-constructed works like Fanciulla and Schicchi, and there's a flamboyant part of me that can't resist Turandot, for all its sadism and depravity.

Tosca is terrific.   Turandot is wonderful, except for the silly happy ending.  After Puccini died they should have turned it over to Richard Strauss instead of that hack to finish, hopefully with a good decapitation scene.   

[(poco) Sforzando]

Tosca is terrific.

But caro mio Barone, you never get to see the third act!

[Scarpia]

But caro mio Barone, you never get to see the third act!

Sounds fine from the wings!   

[greg]

Jowcol, you seem to have taken the role of Don Quixote, doing battle with our resident windmills.  Not a profitable occupation.   

Lol, interesting comparison. 

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Another issue seems to be that Brian's body of work seems to fall in the shadow of the "Gothic" and works for orchestra with chorus really don't appeal to me, even by composers that I otherwise love.   I think if a reputable conductor takes on a Brian symphony other than the Gothic I will have a go at it.

Of Brian's 32 symphonies 29 are purely orchestral. Henry Wood, Thomas Beecham, Adrian Boult, Charles Groves, Charles Mackerras, Norman Del Mar, all conducted Brian's works. Robert Simpson, apart from being instrumental in putting Bruckner and Nielsen on the musical map [Edit: for the English-speaking world, that is], was Havergal Brian's staunchest advocate, without him I wouldn't be sitting here writing this. If you really want to hear Brian at his best (and I have seen you change your mind on Simpson, so you do have an open mind), why not try symphonies 8 and 16 (28 and 18 minutes respectively). No rush. Try them in four months' time, I don't care. But listen to them, only the once, just for fairness' sake. They aren't 'easy', and rather abstract, but that won't frighten you off.

Symphony No 8 in Bb minor (1949). The Royal Liverpool Philharmonic Orchestra, conducted by Sir Charles Groves (commercial recording, EMI, June 1978):

http://www.mediafire.com/?0jf2yvnm2tj

Symphony No. 16 (1960). The London Philharmonic Orchestra, conducted by Myer Fredman (commercial recording, Lyrita, 1975):

http://www.mediafire.com/?i0uuiz32kjd

[The new erato]

Composers not available in giant, cheap boxsets are at a distinct disadvantage these days.

[Brian]

Composers not available in giant, cheap boxsets are at a distinct disadvantage these days.

That reminds me: hey Harry, have you convinced Brilliant Classics to do a complete Ravel edition?

[Guido]

Not the Puccini of Bohème or Butterfly, I admit. The former I've tired of and the latter I totally loathe. (I have in fact never seen a staged production.) But I still have fun attending Tosca, where (as I've written elsewhere) "for two and a half hours I can gorge on a veritable banquet of lust, betrayal, sadism, torture, politics, and murder, all under the beneficent gaze of the Roman Catholic church." There is no "deepest level" with Puccini as he's irremediably shallow, but he can provide considerable enjoyment in well-constructed works like Fanciulla and Schicchi, and there's a flamboyant part of me that can't resist Turandot, for all its sadism and depravity.

I see - I can fully understand this kind of liking of Puccini, but this thread is entitled "composers that are linked to your soul" hence my confusion. Just out of intrest, what do you loathe so much about Butterfly?

[Sergeant Rock]

A "composer" turning out gargantuan, unperformed, and perhaps unperformable, works to fill his desk drawer doesn't arouse my curiosity.

I'm really tempted to bring out the heavy weapons    But I'll try to restrain myself    To correct your mistaken ideas about Brian:

All his symphonies have been performed. Several present difficulties, no doubt, but so does Mahler 8 or Wagner's Ring.

Brian was very eager to have his works performed. He had a good relationship with the BBC for many years.
I have no idea where you got the notion that he wasn't interested in people hearing his music.  In a Feb '61 letter to Robert Simpson about symphonies 13, 14, 15, 16 and 17 he wrote, "The previous five you have been brave enough to broadcast. I hope you will try to do the same for the above 5 - I should like to come along & hear them rehearsed."

That he suffered years of neglect is true of course but we Brian fans admire (and are thankful for) his lifelong persistence, his belief in himself and his music, despite the neglect (which many great 20th century composers experienced--he was hardly alone in that respect). That you somehow find his stoic persistence a negative trait, a reason to avoid his music, surprises me...I would say shocks me but I know you too well. I'm beyond being shocked by your reasoning 

Only the Gothic is "gargantuan" (in terms of duration). The next longest symphonies are (timings from their commercial recordings)

#2  53:28
#3  55:16
#4  49:31
#7  42:16

all of them, you notice, shorter than Bruckner and Mahler's symphonies, shorter than Beethoven's Ninth and no longer than the Eroica. Brian's other 27 symphonies are between 10 and 30 minutes long. The symphonies Jezetha suggested you try are: #8 24:40;  #16 17:41. No one is asking you to invest more than a half hour of your life, and no one is asking you to invest any money: downloads are available for free.

I know you have an aversion to choral works but only 1 and 4 employ a chorus (and the first three movements of the Gothic are sans voices and make a satisfying whole actually). 5 has a baritone soloist. The other 29 symphonies are purely instrumental.

I won't push you further or harder. In fact, I suggest you avoid Brian. Although he's one of my musical soulmates, I see and hear the difficulty his music presents. I doubt you can overcome those difficulties.

On a different subject: you haven't contributed your list to this thread. Is that because you have no soul? I mean, you did name yourself Scarpia 

Sarge

[Klaatu]

As a taster for Brian's music, why not have a look at this 3-minute Youtube video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfVg9vn4jCc

It's a promo both for the recent Brisbane performance of the Gothic and for the forthcoming film The Curse of the Gothic Symphony which will be shown at the 2011 Melbourne Film Festival.

I thought it was great, and enough to get anyone intrigued with the composer's music.