Top 10 favourite VS. top 10 greatest composers

[Mirror Image]

10 Greatest:

Bach
Beethoven
Mozart
Haydn
Schubert
Brahms
Wagner
Mahler
Tchaikovsky
Stravinsky

10 Favorites:

Ravel
Bartok
Vaughan Williams
Bruckner
Berg
Debussy
Villa-Lobos
Stravinsky
Shostakovich
Tchaikovsky

[ajlee]

Greatest:
1 Beethoven
2 Brahms
3 Mahler
4 Chopin
5 Mozart
6 Haydn
7 Schubert
8 Stravinsky
9 Debussy
10 Bach

Fav
1 - 7 from above
8 Schumann
9 Bach
10 Beethoven again (he deserves 2 places on any list like this) XD

[Brian]

10 Beethoven again (he deserves 2 places on any list like this) XD

Heh, I like that. I probably should have done that too. Last year I listened to Beethoven almost twice as much as the second-place composer (Sibelius) and this year I'm averaging 1.6 listens to Beethoven per day!

[DavidRoss]

Heh, I like that. I probably should have done that too. Last year I listened to Beethoven almost twice as much as the second-place composer (Sibelius) and this year I'm averaging 1.6 listens to Beethoven per day!

We could be roomies!  Beethoven gets heard the most around here, followed at some distance by Sibelius, Mozart, Bach, and Mahler...all about even...then Debussy, Stravinsky, Dvorak, Brahms, Bartok, Tchaikovsky, Haydn, Prokofiev, Adams, RVW, and perhaps a couple of others, and then the pack!  The problem with Beethoven and my other faves is that often when I want to hear something and think, hmmm...haven't heard X in months, think I'll put on _____, I often end up thinking that doesn't quite do it and decide life is too short to waste on the third-rate when Beethoven stands at the ready.

Fire away!

[starrynight]

Why would you say someone is a great composer but not like them that much?  Because of what you read, others opinions?  To me a favourite is someone who I like the most most from and so that would equate to being great too.

[Lethevich]

That question is one of the many reasons for why I started the thread. In my case it's self-awareness - a feeling that humans are subjective creatures, even the most educated cannot completely agree. But when my tastes do not fully coincide with an aggregate choice from a whole lot of intelligent people, I see no reason to argue against it.

For example, my almost total neglect of Mozart if I were to only listen to my own judgement would suggest that there are 50 or 100 better composers, but this view would evidently be the wrong one. At the same time, I also don't feel any pressure to listen to Mozart because I feel that what I am "missing", I am just not in the mood for at the moment, or that his music was written in a manner that appeals to the majority but by some quirk of my personality I find it tiresome and there may be little that I can do to change that.

I didn't include any strong examples in my favourites list, but among, say, my top 20-30 favourites there are some composers which would be frankly unreasonable to expect many others to rate so highly - their appeal to be is based on very specific aspects of my personality and temperament.

[karlhenning]

Why would you say someone is a great composer but not like them that much?

Bach is obviously a great composer. As a rule, though, I like listening to a great many other composers, more often.  Doesn't strictly mean that I don't like Bach that much, but in a practical sense, I like others rather better.

[starrynight]

In my case it's self-awareness - a feeling that humans are subjective creatures, even the most educated cannot completely agree. But when my tastes do not fully coincide with an aggregate choice from a whole lot of intelligent people, I see no reason to argue against it.

But why worry, who cares?  Just like what you like.  There are many very good composers.

Bach is obviously a great composer. As a rule, though, I like listening to a great many other composers, more often.  Doesn't strictly mean that I don't like Bach that much, but in a practical sense, I like others rather better.

So if you like others alot then I assume you must think they are great too in some way otherwise you wouldn't listen to them.  And what is music without being something in a practical sense?  Just something in a history book. 

[Lethevich]

I hope you didn't read any of my posts in this thread as being in any way intense - I'm enjoying asking these questions, it's satisfying a curiosity. It is perhaps pointless, but also fun.

[Gurn Blanston]

Why would you say someone is a great composer but not like them that much?  Because of what you read, others opinions?  To me a favourite is someone who I like the most most from and so that would equate to being great too.

Not sure it is exactly "not like them that much". Is greatness the only thing that you want to hear in music? Do you never tread off the beaten path and listen to someone whose music is not 'great', but which appeals to you for some other reason? I do, every day. I am first in line to say that Bach, for example, was a great composer. Still, there are a few dozens that I will listen to before I put on some Bach. I would listen to his contemporary, Vivaldi, 50 times before a Bach disk came up in the mix. His music appeals to me, I love the virtuosity of his violin writing, and I like his melodies and interesting rhythms way more than I do Bach's intricate counterpoints. Does that lessen my appreciation of Bach's genius? Not at all. I'll take Vivaldi any day.


Great                                     Favorite
Bach                                        Vivaldi
Haydn                                      Haydn
Beethoven                               Beethoven
Mozart                                     Mozart
Schubert                                  Schubert
Brahms                                    Brahms
Mahler                                      Dvorak
Wagner                                    Mendelssohn
Schönberg                                Tchaikovsky
Stravinsky                                Shostakovitch

So, a few in common.



----------------
Now playing:
A. Karttunen (Cello) & Tuija Hakkila (Fortepiano) - Bia 206 Op 17 Sonata in F for Cello (or Horn) & Fortepiano 1st mvmt - Allegro moderato

[DavidRoss]

Why would you say someone is a great composer but not like them that much?  Because of what you read, others opinions?  To me a favourite is someone who I like the most most from and so that would equate to being great too.

See my post above yours, setting forth the criteria that, for me, determine "greatness."  You cannot not acknowledge Wagner's profound influence, nor the high esteem in which many knowledgeable musicians hold him.  I suspect that most people who aren't cranks or who cannot forgive his vile anti-Semitism would unhesitatingly put him among the 10 "greatest."  As for liking his music, however...there is much that I admire, but also much that I do not.  I'm one of those for whom his marvelous moments don't outweigh his dreadful quarter-hours.

The idea of "greatness" supposes some sort of objectivity.  "Liking," however, is purely subjective.  I just addressed Wagner as a "great" whom I don't particularly like.  On the other hand, there are many I like who are far from great, at least in the sense that Bach and Mozart and Sibelius and Debussy and, yes, Wagner are great.  Barber, for instance.  Nielsen.  Piston.  And so on.

Get it now?

[Lethevich]

Some contrasting preliminary findings (# of votes) for your statistical gratification:

Dvořák
Greatest: 1
Favourite: 5

Schoenberg
Greatest: 5
Favourite: 1

Bruckner
Greatest: 1
Favourite: 3

Wagner
Greatest: 8
Favourite: 1

Bartók
Greatest: 0
Favourite: 4

Schumann
Greatest: 1
Favourite: 4

Schubert
Greatest: 8
Favourite: 3

Stravinsky
Greatest: 9
Favourite: 2

Mahler
Greatest: 6
Favourite: 3

Beethoven
Greatest: 11
Favourite: 7

Brahms
Greatest: 8
Favourite: 6

Bach
Greatest: 10
Favourite: 4

Mozart
Greatest: 11
Favourite: 5

Haydn
Greatest: 11
Favourite: 5

Debussy
Greatest: 4
Favourite: 2

Sibelius
Greatest: 2
Favourite: 4

David: your number of votes was naughty and polluted the findings so I hope you're not offended that I skipped them?

Edit: Updated.

[mc ukrneal]

Interesting that Brahms has the highest percentage of people who love his music AND think he's great. Interesting also that only 3 composers have at least 50% who are favorites and great - Brahms, Beethoven, and Haydn!

[knight66]

Great...in no real order
Bach
Mozart
Beethoven
Bruckner
Wagner
Schubert
Stravinsky
Mahler
Handel
Brahms

Favourites
Bach
Handel
Berlioz
Verdi
Mozart...but don't listen to the symphonies
Mahler
Bruckner
Schubert
R Strauss
Britten

Mike

[not edward]

Bartók
Greatest: 0
Favourite: 3

I think this is the one that seems slightly anomalous to me. I think I'd have unconsciously expected more 'greatest' votes for him than 'favourite.'

[Brian]

Interesting that Brahms has the highest percentage of people who love his music AND think he's great. Interesting also that only 3 composers have at least 50% who are favorites and great - Brahms, Beethoven, and Haydn!

I think I am the lone person (excepting Mike's new ballot) who greatest'd Brahms but did not favorite him.

[Brian]

I think this is the one that seems slightly anomalous to me. I think I'd have unconsciously expected more 'greatest' votes for him than 'favourite.'

The count is wrong, incidentally - there was one "greatest" vote for Bartok (Henk).

[Lethevich]

Grr, and I tried to double-check them all too

[starrynight]

You cannot not acknowledge Wagner's profound influence

Influence.  Ah.  Well how do we measure influence?  Is influence always good, can it result in crap pieces as well as good ones?  Is influence merely about fashion, under different circumstances could someone else have become the big musical figure?  And originality...is it really as important as just pure musical achievement? 

, nor the high esteem in which many knowledgeable musicians hold him.

So that's based on some other people's judgement or assumed judgement, or some tradition of thinking someone is important which is handed down.  I'd rather just use my own ears.  You know that Spohr was considered a very influential and historically important figure for quite some time?  JS Bach and Handel were considered unimportant and Mozart was thought to be lightweight by many etc.

  As for liking his music, however...there is much that I admire, but also much that I do not.  I'm one of those for whom his marvelous moments don't outweigh his dreadful quarter-hours.

So you think Wagner is a very good composer but not a great one.

Get it now?

I get my ideas perfectly well.

[DavidRoss]

David: your number of votes was naughty and polluted the findings so I hope you're not offended that I skipped them?

Whoops.  10 each only.  Guess that means I can reconsider. 

Great=Beethoven, Bach, Mahler, Sibelius, Mozart, Brahms, Stravinsky, Debussy, Haydn, Schubert (okay, call me a crank!)
Fave= Beethoven, Bach, Mahler, Sibelius, Mozart, Debussy, Prokofiev, Dvořák, Bartόk, RVW (Today's list--the top 7 would always be there)

You may adjust rankings now if you wish.   
Incidentally, you left out Sibelius:  2 greatest (you and I only, alas), 4 fave (+ Brian and Sarge).