anyone else following Egypt on Aljazeera?

[bwv 1080]

seems like 1989 in North Africa, hopefully the Egyptians will succeed in driving Mubarak out of power

[Lethevich]

It's super neat, and all because of a single market trader in Tunisia.

[knight66]

I have been watching it on the news. Scary stuff in Egypt. It could so easily produce an active enemy for Israel and destablise the whole area. People's revolutions don't often actually benefiit the people. Swatting one bloodsucking fly away, another hungrier one often takes its place.

Mike

[MishaK]

Looks like Egypt is pulling a Romania next to Tunisia's Hungary.

[bwv 1080]

Mubarak has sacked the government (but not apparently himself)

[mahler10th]

Mubarak has sacked the government (but not apparently himself)

Yes.  I wonder how that will go with the people, as he himself is their object of protest.  Talk about misreading a situation or what?  It is like someone saying "I hate you and I want you out of the house!"  with the reply "I understand you.  I will send the children out to play for you."

[MishaK]

Yes.  I wonder how that will go with the people.

Not well. They're now shouting "Down with Mubarak!" The longer a dictator has been in power the more daft he is in comprehending these sorts of things.

[mahler10th]

His new Governent is set up with new powers to 'deal with the situation'.  I hope he does not mean the situation on the streets, but rather the situation of his country.

[Scarpia]

Well, I have no sympathy with Mubarak, but I'm not convinced good will come of this.  What are the odds that Islamic Fundamentalists will end up running things when the smoke clears?

[Lethevich]

It's not just any arab country, though. It's the most populous (I think) in the middle east, its demographic is young and more educated than many others. It's more than worth a punt, as if any country could create a domino effect, it would be this one.

[MishaK]

Well, I have no sympathy with Mubarak, but I'm not convinced good will come of this.  What are the odds that Islamic Fundamentalists will end up running things when the smoke clears?

Well, the Muslim brotherhood, which is the largest opposition party is Islamic conservative in outlook, but they are not fundamentalists by any stretch, as that term would be understood in the West. Plus Mohammed El Baradei seems to be a credible opposition leadership figure and he surely is no extremist. If the West is serious about stopping Islamic fundamentalism there has to come a point where they realize that supporting repressive regimes on the grounds of presumed "stability" and resistance to "terrorism" and "fundmentalism" achieves the opposite: it radicalizes the population in the long run.

[mahler10th]

It's not just any arab country, though. It's the most populous (I think) in the middle east, its demographic is young and more educated than many others. It's more than worth a punt, as if any country could create a domino effect, it would be this one.

I agree.  Egypt (just as some other countrties we don't expect, Iran, Jordan...) has a level of sophistication which is on a par with Western levels, just like Israel does.  We shouldn't put it down as some kind of 'peasant' revolt.     

I must admit, if the UK governemnt decided to block mobile and internet access in a 24 hour period because of riots, I'd be out there with everyone else (with Bruckner on my ipod of course).   

[MishaK]

An Obama administration official says the US will review its $1.5bn in aid to Egypt based on events unfolding in the country, where the authoritarian government is struggling to extinguish huge and growing street protests.

The official spoke on condition of anonymity because of the delicacy of the situation. Egypt has been a key US ally in the volatile region. US officials are now increasing calls on President Hosni Mubarak, the target of the protesters, to respond with restraint and reverse steps taken to cut off the protesters' ability to communicate.

The decision to review assistance to Egypt is a significant step as the US seeks to balance the desire to maintain stability in the region with a recognition of the unexpected scope and uncertain outcome of the protests.

Now we're talking! Take him off the IV already!

[mahler10th]

I am so busy watching Al Jazeera and the BBC News Channel that I'm not listening to anything!!  Unusual.   Anyone know of any Egyptian composers?

[bwv 1080]

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/101313/20110114/the-story-of-mohamed-bouazizi-the-man-who-toppled-tunisia.htm


Friday, January 14, 2011 3:12 PM
The Story of Mohamed Bouazizi, the man who toppled Tunisia
Mohamed Bouazizi was a 26-year-old Tunisian with a computer science degree.   

Like millions of angry and desperate Tunisians, he faced the unpleasant combination of poor employment prospects and food inflation. Moreover, the Tunisian government was seen as corrupt and authoritarian.

By December 17, resentment against authorities has been brewing for a while.

To make ends meet, the unemployed Bouazizi sold fruits and vegetables from a cart in his rural town of Sidi Bouzid, located 160 miles from the country's capital Tunis. He did not have a license to sell, but it was his sole source of income.

On December 17, authorities confiscated his produce and allegedly slapped his face.

Bouazizi became incensed.

He then drenched himself in gasoline and set himself on fire outside the governor's office. Bouazizi survived his initial suicide attempt. After being transported to a hospital near Tunis, he was visited by President Zine al-Abidine Ben Ali before passing away on January 4.   

After his suicide attempt, unrest broke out in Sidi Bouzid. The police cracked down on the protestors, which only fueled the movement.  The revolt eventually spread to the capital city.

On January 14, the masses of protestors prevailed as President Ben Ali fled the country amid escalating violence and opposition.

During Bouazizi's funeral, Agence France Presse reported that marchers chanted "farewell, Mohamed, we will avenge you. We weep for you today, we will make those who caused your death weep."

[drogulus]

Well, the Muslim brotherhood, which is the largest opposition party is Islamic conservative in outlook, but they are not fundamentalists by any stretch, as that term would be understood in the West. Plus Mohammed El Baradei seems to be a credible opposition leadership figure and he surely is no extremist. If the West is serious about stopping Islamic fundamentalism there has to come a point where they realize that supporting repressive regimes on the grounds of presumed "stability" and resistance to "terrorism" and "fundmentalism" achieves the opposite: it radicalizes the population in the long run.

     The West will not realize that, and I don't have a very good argument for why it should. Because democracy is better? All things being equal, yes. All things are not equal, though.

     Why do you think ElBaredei is better? Why be happy with him since he'll do the same thing Mubarak does?

     And why do you put terrorism, stability and fundamentalism in quotes? Are they illusory, or creations of Western propagandists? I would say instead that the fictionality of these is itself a creation of a different set of propagandists, who don't have a very good explanation for how these illusory terrorists and fundamentalists manage to kill so many nonillusory people.

[Lethevich]

Why do you think ElBaredei is better? Why be happy with him since he'll do the same thing Mubarak does?

That is why he is useful in this matter - his Nobel peace prize winning status would leave him more likely to want to be a good leader, if only for egotistical reasons. Becoming just another despot would lose him all that delicious international admiration and attention that he has gathered until now.

[MishaK]

     Why do you think ElBaredei is better? Why be happy with him since he'll do the same thing Mubarak does?

Based on his leadership style at the IAEA he doesn't strike me as being of nearly the same mold. Also, he offered to be head of an *interim* government if the people so desire. That is a rather modest ambition that speaks well of his character.

     And why do you put terrorism, stability and fundamentalism in quotes? Are they illusory, or creations of Western propagandists?

I'm not saying they are fictional or illusory. Rather, like many other things in politics, they are extremely shortsighted concepts. To really fight terrorism and fundamentalism and create stability in the long term you have to resist the easy fixes that give you "stability" in the short term. That is what we're seeing in the case of Egypt. Remember that a significant number of the 9-11 attackers, including ringleader Mohammed Atta, came from Egypt. Remember that the Egyptians tolerated and encourage the tunnels to the Palestinian territories in Sinai. So what was that "stability" worth in the end? From a sober perspective, Mubarak failed to live up even to those modest expectations of "stability" for which the West supported him, and he failed long before these protests came about.

[Philoctetes]

One sure way to fix it....

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/01/2011128222033802146.html

[Philoctetes]

What sort of stinks is that Egypt has gotten so large it has distracted us from Gabon.

http://www.timeslive.co.za/africa/article877998.ece/Tensions-rise-in-Gabon