Mystery pianists -- not bonehelm's thread

[sidoze]

Please join in if you wish to. I will also try to reupload the recordings individually.

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I scraped together 16 recordings of the etude which concludes Chopin's Sonata nr 2. I omitted 5 of those as they were either too well-known (2) or lacking in what I thought of as an individual sound (3). Therefore we have 11. Not my favourite 11--I could not include my favourite recording--but I think an excellent selection -- all 11 offer something different, and I think 8, perhaps 9 of these are individual enough to be quite recognisable. A few of them are of the sort that, if you hear them once, you're likely to recognise them forever after. Of the 11, only 1 is not commercially available. A few of the recordings have dated sound.

all 11 - http://rapidshare.com/files/39536518/finale.rar

separate tracks - http://rapidshare.com/users/TSHA31

[sidoze]

orbital:

"I was able to download the big batch file. These are tough, I may have three guesses at most:
No2 - Brand (I was listening to his recording just yesterday, and the right hand notes tend to stand out more than usual in his reading)
No8 - Gavrilov (mostly because his is the one with the least pedal I know)
No10 - Michelangeli (the sonata no2 that I have tends to have this motor-like drive in the phrases where he gathers speed and loudness in those fast runs, just like this No. 10 here)

There are some very interesting readings here, and most are unique as well. Perhaps I maydo some comparitive listening at home, if this is not considered cheating. "

[sidoze]

individual tracks can be downloaded from this folder: http://rapidshare.com/users/TSHA31

[Bonehelm]

Guys, I apologize for impolitely roaming this thread earlier. I sometimes get annoyed quickly, I'll keep an eye on myself in the future. Thanks for the mods for clearing up the thread...and everyone have a nice time with the guessing game. And you can always come over to mine if you wish! 

[Drasko]

I'm pretty sure that No.6 is Michelangeli

Why?

Next few lines I'd like to solely dedicate to Society for Preserving the Wellbeing of Blue Dragons (S.P.W.B.D)

Because of the evenness of runs, of the fullness of sound in those swells, the refusal to milk that slow passage before the final bangs (for opposite check clip 11), because even if that final bang is very loud tone is glorious and doesn't harden for a moment.

[sidoze]

I'm pretty sure that No.6 is Michelangeli

Why?

Yes indeed Mr. Drasko, you nailed it. Nice observations. It's the BBC Legends live performance, from '59 I think.

Now could you please make public your other 7 guesses (barring the 3 which I sent you before)?

No8 - Gavrilov (mostly because his is the one with the least pedal I know)

Do you have one of Gavrilov's recordings to listen to? I've heard 3 recordings by him, the most recent from a '99 or '00 recital in Germany (released on a German CD). He is extremely quick, slamming it home in about 60, 61, 62 seconds, something like that. At no time did I ever hear him pay so much attention to detail as this number 8. In fact I'd go as far as to say that number 8 pulls out voices that no other pianist has (and I suspect no other pianist could do, or very, very few at most). That's not to say that 8 colours his performance as much as, say, 1 or 7 or 9 or 10--I don't think he does--but the voices which he highlights are ones I've never heard before, and that in itself is something remarkable considering how often this work has been played. And the way he does it too, as you mentioned.

It's not one of the ones I like most here though. I'd say my favourite of these is number 10 -- dark, tense, with insane voices flying out like sparks. The calculated details of 9 are remarkable too.

I agree with George -- 7 is quite special, highlighting certain voices but not overdoing it, maintaining the "wind over the graves".

Hint: 7 studied with 10 

Does anyone like 1? That is another with a surfeit of detailed voices. Or the way 11 concludes?

One very interesting thing -- all 3 of you have remarked positively of number 2, mentioning Brand and Pogorelich as possibilities. I can tell you it's neither one and that the pianist in question should be better known. It's a well-balanced performance, bound to impress without going over the top as some have here.

[orbital]

Do you have one of Gavrilov's recordings to listen to? I've heard 3 recordings by him, the most recent from a '99 or '00 recital in Germany (released on a German CD). He is extremely quick, slamming it home in about 60, 61, 62 seconds, something like that. At no time did I ever hear him pay so much attention to detail as this number 8. In fact I'd go as far as to say that number 8 pulls out voices that no other pianist has (and I suspect no other pianist could do, or very, very few at most). That's not to say that 8 colours his performance as much as, say, 1 or 7 or 9 or 10--I don't think he does--but the voices which he highlights are ones I've never heard before, and that in itself is something remarkable considering how often this work has been played. And the way he does it too, as you mentioned.

Sure, I'll put it up. It is the recordig with the 4 Ballades + this sonata.
I don't think it was anything below 1 minute though, probably in the 1:15-1:25 range even. I may be way off, but with little/less pedaling, Gavrilov was the first that came to mind. That and the thundering ending.

With regards to not paying enough attention to details, perhaps so, but his studies are not bad at all.

[Drasko]

Now could you please make public your other 7 guesses (barring the 3 which I sent you before)?

Just to clarify for the others: sidoze and I were discussing few performances of this piece several days ago, before this quiz was even considered and now those came up in this bunch (5,7,10). He didn't tell me which they are (and even edited some applause out) but it is still fairly easy to guess something I listened that recently.

Hint: 7 studied with 10

But didn't even come close to his teacher

One very interesting thing -- all 3 of you have remarked positively of number 2, mentioning Brand and Pogorelich as possibilities. I can tell you it's neither one and that the pianist in question should be better known.

Maybe that is the reason, lack of distinctive voice? I was almost sure it was Pogorelich. 

[sidoze]

I don't think it was anything below 1 minute though, probably in the 1:15-1:25 range even. I may be way off, but with little/less pedaling, Gavrilov was the first that came to mind. That and the thundering ending.

The last Gavrilov recording I heard (the live German one) just went past 60 seconds. I don't recall the timings of the other ones but I doubt they were much slower -- we all know he could never slow down. I have a very early live Liszt La Campanella by him and he plays the coda so fast that you can hardly hear it.

With regards to not paying enough attention to details, perhaps so, but his studies are not bad at all.

His studies are wonderful -- I'd almost call them boyish in the way he tosses some of them off so nonchalantly. I don't recall such fond memories of this particular finale though. If you could upload it that would be great, because all I remember is him whirring past in a blur.

But didn't even come close to his teacher

I agree. Ultimately it's not of the same shocking quality, though I think it has moments of its own, certainly enough to be included here. In any case I thought it was the best part of the disc, aside from the stunning way he plays the very end of the Funeral March.

Maybe that is the reason, lack of distinctive voice?

I'm not sure about that. I think it has a lot going for it, perhaps most of all the diminuendo that starts at about 52 seconds for those repeated bell-sounding notes, and the way he becomes quite violent once they end. It adds character to the piece, more so than you'd get from a frenetic dash.

[m_gigena]

The last Gavrilov recording I heard (the live German one) just went past 60 seconds.

And yet he doesn't beat Berman's 50 seconds.

[orbital]

Here:
http://download.yousendit.com/B4359CF60F331409

It is at 1:18, but it's got a little more blur than I remembered.

[sidoze]

And yet he doesn't beat Berman's 50 seconds.

I don't know that one, but I'm fairly certain I wouldn't like it.

You know a lot about pianists, why don't you listen to these?

Here:

Thanks

[Drasko]

Gave some of those one more spin and have to admit that this is very difficult, with this amount of performances in short time span all tends to blur, and any comparative listening would probably give me a headache.

I was seriously considering Francois for No.1 but I'm leaning even more toward him possibly being No.8, there aren't that many somewhat dry toned pianist with that kind of pointed articulation around.

I'd say my favourite of these is number 10 -- dark, tense, with insane voices flying out like sparks. The calculated details of 9 are remarkable too.

I could agree with this.

Does anyone like....................the way 11 concludes? 

Actually I don't really like that, No.11 is interesting with some impressive velocity unleashed at moments, and the singing 'tune' at 1'05 and onwards is very lovely but to me playing overall sounds touch monochrome and that drawn-out pause is an overkill, even vulgar. It kinda reminded me of Katsaris, have no idea if it is him, but had few chances to hear him live lately and he is rather annoyingly prone to those dramatic pauses while looking at ceiling and waving hands in the air in some knowing sort of didn't I tell you so manner.

Now I'm off to listen to some Bruckner for next few days.

[sidoze]

Gave some of those one more spin and have to admit that this is very difficult, with this amount of performances in short time span all tends to blur, and any comparative listening would probably give me a headache.

This is probably the last time I do something like this, so why not go all out?

I was seriously considering Francois for No.1 but I'm leaning even more toward him possibly being No.8, there aren't that many somewhat dry toned pianist with that kind of pointed articulation around.

Francois' Sonata 2 is wonderful, especially the dark opening he conjured up. AFAIK he made two recordings -- the one in the GPOC and Chopin sets the better one than the (I believe earlier) one in the big white Introuvables set.

Actually I don't really like that, No.11 is interesting with some impressive velocity unleashed at moments, and the singing 'tune' at 1'05 and onwards is very lovely but to me playing overall sounds touch monochrome and that drawn-out pause is an overkill, even vulgar. It kinda reminded me of Katsaris, have no idea if it is him, but had few chances to hear him live lately and he is rather annoyingly prone to those dramatic pauses while looking at ceiling and waving hands in the air in some knowing sort of didn't I tell you so manner.

thanks for that. I get a similar impression about Katsaris, though I've never seen him live or heard his sonata 2 (Deacon thinks his finale is even wilder than Brand's). I think everyone--well, you 3--will be surprised by who the pianist is. I was.

Any other guesses? Or should I just let it all out now?

Now I'm off to listen to some Bruckner for next few days.

I've been listening to Asahina -- one poster has flooded the group with multiple live recordings. I rather like him, even though it's not exactly viscerally exciting.

[m_gigena]

You know a lot about pianists, why don't you listen to these?

I loaded them in my Ipod and listened them in my way to the University; but I can't really give too much attention while commuting. I hope to have some free time next week to dedicate to this.

[cx]

I've been listening to Asahina -- one poster has flooded the group with multiple live recordings. I rather like him, even though it's not exactly viscerally exciting.

I've only heard a few Asahina Bruckner recordings but I think from what I've heard they are very fresh sounding, very vibrant. Although the discs I have have exceptional sound, so my impressions might be a bit biased. I have a #7 by him that is probably one of the fastest I've ever heard...but most of it is pulled off very well, and very interestingly.

Don't mean to derail your thread, just that Asahina hardly gets any coverage at GMG, so I had to comment.

--CS

[sidoze]

I've only heard a few Asahina Bruckner recordings but I think from what I've heard they are very fresh sounding, very vibrant. Although the discs I have have exceptional sound, so my impressions might be a bit biased. I have a #7 by him that is probably one of the fastest I've ever heard...but most of it is pulled off very well, and very interestingly.

Don't mean to derail your thread, just that Asahina hardly gets any coverage at GMG, so I had to comment.

--CS

No problem at all. I'll send you the links via PM.

[sidoze]

I watched the timings as the movement ends - he's actually at 1:07. 

So is clip 5.

Gavrilov's live German account is a few seconds faster. But I think speed counts for very little here.

[m_gigena]

Don't mean to derail your thread, just that Asahina hardly gets any coverage at GMG, so I had to comment.

You should join OperaShare, there are lots of live recordings of Asahina there.

[sidoze]

Really?

I disagree, it's a finale and I like my finale's brisk, especially when marked Presto. 

Sure, it's presto. But in matters of detail and voicing, there's no comparison between the 67 second ones and ones like numbers 1, 9 and 10. They just have so much more colour and character, even if slightly slower.