Beethoven Symphonies HIP

[DavidRoss]

There is no single interpretive POV that is the correct one. No matter how adamant the opposition on that subject, you are well able to resist it, as long as you don't fall into the same trap yourself. Thus my own tiny list (Hogwood, Immerseel, Gardiner, Savall, Herreweghe and Krivine) which is more noticeable for its diversity than for its sameness (despite being 100% PI). What I hoped for when I first delighted in your revelatory moment is that a door is now open to allow you to explore new takes on old subjects, so to say. You absolutely can and should revel in what you've discovered, and also use it as a springboard to discover more. As near as I can tell since then, you have done just that. ¡Bueno! 

+1

Good lord, Roddy is back? What next -- Saul? The halfwit who thinks he's the world's foremost expert on Wagner? The one who thinks paying for sex with underage girls sold into slavery as prostitutes in Thailand equals true love? Or, perhaps topping them all, the one who calls himself ... Newman!

The horror!  The horror!

[Rod Corkin]

+1

Good lord, Roddy is back? What next -- Saul? The halfwit who thinks he's the world's foremost expert on Wagner? The one who thinks paying for sex with underage girls sold into slavery as prostitutes in Thailand equals true love? Or, perhaps topping them all, the one who calls himself ... Newman!

The horror!  The horror!

Ross you're a buffoon. Lucky for you this is an unmoderated forum.

PS I'm not 'back', just noticed my name get a few new mentions in this thread. This time tomorrow it will be as if I never were here..

[DavidRoss]

Ross you're a buffoon.

Yes. But when I'm playing the buffoon I'm aware of it and intend it.

[Geo Dude]

If I may, Rod, I'll repeat my (serious) question:

On that note, do you have any updated views on the best Beethoven interpretations?  I believe you mentioned Goodman some years ago as an example, do you still feel that's the best option?

[Elgarian]

There is no single interpretive POV that is the correct one. No matter how adamant the opposition on that subject, you are well able to resist it, as long as you don't fall into the same trap yourself. Thus my own tiny list (Hogwood, Immerseel, Gardiner, Savall, Herreweghe and Krivine) which is more noticeable for its diversity than for its sameness (despite being 100% PI). What I hoped for when I first delighted in your revelatory moment is that a door is now open to allow you to explore new takes on old subjects, so to say. You absolutely can and should revel in what you've discovered, and also use it as a springboard to discover more. As near as I can tell since then, you have done just that. ¡Bueno! 

I haven't exactly gone Beethoven mad since those wonderful Immerseel Discovery Days, Gurn - but it was indeed a springboard event. I now have two Beethoven symphony sets that rock my socks off:



It's true that although I love it to bits, I think the Haitink is unlikely to displace Immerseel from my personal number 1 spot; and it'll be a good while before I'm tempted to try another set of any kind; but what's interesting is that Immerseel's period rock&roll approach actually made it possible at all for me to become open to another, modern instrument set of performances. That rare kind of perception-clearing change is what I most hope for in the arts. The most exciting new windows are the ones that open onto a view that includes other new windows.

[Brian]

PS I'm not 'back', just noticed my name get a few new mentions in this thread. This time tomorrow it will be as if I never were here..

How did you notice? Do you search for your own name? Do you still read GMG daily?

The most exciting new windows are the ones that open onto a view that includes other new windows.

Off the top of my head, I can't think of a sentence posted on GMG that I've ever liked better.

[Elgarian]

Now I have no choice but to listen to Immerseel's Beethoven today. 

Brian, finding this comment of yours warmed the very cockles of my heart. In consequence, I'm listening to the 5th myself as we speak, and it comes up just as fresh, just as bedazzling, just as air-punchingly strutworthy, just as fifties hillbilly-cat Elvis, as it did on Day One.

[Gurn Blanston]

I haven't exactly gone Beethoven mad since those wonderful Immerseel Discovery Days, Gurn - but it was indeed a springboard event. I now have two Beethoven symphony sets that rock my socks off:



It's true that although I love it to bits, I think the Haitink is unlikely to displace Immerseel from my personal number 1 spot; and it'll be a good while before I'm tempted to try another set of any kind; but what's interesting is that Immerseel's period rock&roll approach actually made it possible at all for me to become open to another, modern instrument set of performances. That rare kind of perception-clearing change is what I most hope for in the arts. The most exciting new windows are the ones that open onto a view that includes other new windows.

Well, Alan, that is what I was referring to when speaking of being pleased for you. Actually, when it comes to which cycle did it, I have no dog in that fight. It is the mere fact that the door was opened that I am pleased about. FWIW, I like that Haitink cycle too.

[Elgarian]

In fact, I ordered the Immerseel set ten minutes ago thanks to this and previous discussion.

To quote Julia Roberts (in Notting Hill): 'Good decision.'

Punching the air is not obligatory while listening to it, but my best advice is to give in to the impulse if (as seems likely) you feel tempted.

[Elgarian]

Well, Alan, that is what I was referring to when speaking of being pleased for you.

Yes, I know, Gurn. I was so pleased to read you were pleased that I couldn't resist adding a bit more embroidery to the Immerseel Appreciation Society Presentation Tea Towel.

[DavidRoss]

Yes, I know, Gurn. I was so pleased to read you were pleased that I couldn't resist adding a bit more embroidery to the Immerseel Appreciation Society Presentation Tea Towel.

Well, it ain't Brüggen, but then nothing else is, either. Otherwise it's my favorite HIP PI set (don't know Krivine, nor the new Brüggen cycle) and this thread suggests it's time to slip it back into rotation. Thanks!

[Octave]

Punching the air is not obligatory while listening to it, but my best advice is to give in to the impulse if (as seems likely) you feel tempted.

I knew there was a Metal Maniac in you just waiting to get out.  Maybe I knew this when I saw your reference iirc to Segerstam's Sibelius as 'built on ice caverns'...something Nordic Metal about that.  Though I think I saw a subsequent comment about Rozhdestvensky that praised it for its 'blue skies'...so I shouldn't typecast you.  I'm going to have to buy both of those now.   

[knight66]

+1

Good lord, Roddy is back? What next -- Saul? The halfwit who thinks he's the world's foremost expert on Wagner? The one who thinks paying for sex with underage girls sold into slavery as prostitutes in Thailand equals true love? Or, perhaps topping them all, the one who calls himself ... Newman!

The horror!  The horror!

I think you are conflating Saul and Sean, or just possibly Pink Harp. Saul was the Mendelssohn nut, composer, artist and ultra Zionist. To also attract Newman back would be over egging the pudding.

No mystery about Rod, speak of the devil and his tail appeareth. As we see, he is as he was and will trundle off again very shortly. He likes to pop back and advertise his site.

Right, now, how about Beethoven? I was surprised to see Immerseel so praised. I have his Berlioz Symphony and I think the pacing sluggish and lacking flexibility. But I take it his Beethoven can't be like that. Can someone tell me where he scores well?

Mike

[Geo Dude]

I knew there was a Metal Maniac in you just waiting to get out.  Maybe I knew this when I saw your reference iirc to Segerstam's Sibelius as 'built on ice caverns'...something Nordic Metal about that.  Though I think I saw a subsequent comment about Rozhdestvensky that praised it for its 'blue skies'...so I shouldn't typecast you.  I'm going to have to buy both of those now.   

I have to admit, this post put a grin on my face.

[Gurn Blanston]

I think you are conflating Saul and Sean, or just possibly Pink Harp. Saul was the Mendelssohn nut, composer, artist and ultra Zionist. To also attract Newman back would be over egging the pudding.

No mystery about Rod, speak of the devil and his tail appeareth. As we see, he is as he was and will trundle off again very shortly. He likes to pop back and advertise his site.

Right, now, how about Beethoven? I was surprised to see Immerseel so praised. I have his Berlioz Symphony and I think the pacing sluggish and lacking flexibility. But I take it his Beethoven can't be like that. Can someone tell me where he scores well?

Mike

His 5th is probably the best of the lot; in fact, it is as good as the best of anyone else's lot too. I don't listen to much newer than Schubert, so his Berlioz will have escaped me. Too modern....

[Wakefield]

... so his Berlioz will have escaped me. Too modern....

... too many instruments; too much noisy. 

On Immerseel: I agree, his Fifth is the best of the cycle and my favorite interpretation of this symphony. Fresh, and evocative, and like premonitory... all an achievement. 

[knight66]

I am off for a look then. Thanks both.

Mike

[mszczuj]

For me the best Anima Eterna recordings are Mozart concertos and Debussy, especially Debussy is absolutely magic. Especially Rondes des Printemps and Gigues.

But Beethoven? It's nice. Is it good to play Beethoven nicely? Almost like the septets nos 2-10. Probably better than Hogwood or Gardiner or even than old Bruggen. But nothing as electrifying as Goodman/Huggett.

[Octave]

re: Goodman/Huggett's Beethoven:

This is the best option for me (I haven't heard Krivine yet). It is hated for the sound, I suppose. I have no problem with the reverb, listen to it with pleasure and really think so.

[...]But Beethoven? It's [Immerseel] nice. Is it good to play Beethoven nicely? Almost like the septets nos 2-10. Probably better than Hogwood or Gardiner or even than old Bruggen. But nothing as electrifying as Goodman/Huggett.

I am drawn by these comments as well as by the Hurwitzer hate; I virtually never hear this cycle discussed, by the by. 
I'm interested enough to buy this, but I see it's a Nimbus issue, therefore possibly an unannounced CDR set....has anyone purchased a new copy of this from Amazon directly in the past couple years?  I could believe that copies of an earlier (real CD) pressing are still being sold...

[Gurn Blanston]

re: Goodman/Huggett's Beethoven:
I am drawn by these comments as well as by the Hurwitzer hate; I virtually never hear this cycle discussed, by the by. 
I'm interested enough to buy this, but I see it's a Nimbus issue, therefore possibly an unannounced CDR set....has anyone purchased a new copy of this from Amazon directly in the past couple years?  I could believe that copies of an earlier (real CD) pressing are still being sold...

It's an interesting set, Octo. I am on board with those who say it is a very nice performance indeed. I don't have real issues with the sound the way many do. Maybe I am just more adaptable?!?      I have a few quibbles with tempo here and there, but that's about all.

There are many copies on the market, I highly doubt that Nimbus have had to make any new ones since they have begun their 'on-demand' CD-R campaign. As for acquiring it, I bought it brand new in shrinkwrap in a version including the Missa Solemnis for under $15 back on 2005. I would be surprised if you couldn't do the same thing.