Unpopular Opinions

[Monsieur Croche]

Of course both concerti are playable, but they are not pianistic in the way e.g. Tchaikovsky's or Liszt's are. And they are considered quite difficult (I think Nelson Freire called Brahms 2 the most difficult piano concerto in the repertoire, for example, and he's played Rach 3).

Bach, Schumann and Brahms (there are others, to be sure) wrote for the keyboards of their day in a very dense manner, without much (or any) consideration of those works being necessarily 'with the hand' piano / pianist friendly.  Of course these same composer's works are playable.

The Brahms Piano Concerti are both formidable Mount Everests of the literature for pianists; their texture is often dense; they require power throughout, regardless of the dynamics.  For the second concerto especially, uncommon champion (completely reliable) mental and physical stamina are required to play through (from memory) and maintain focus on the overall structure of this 40 minutes long concertante work, all the while being heard with or over the orchestra.  The ability to play these more dense and large-scale structures and render them and their architecture with virtuosic clarity is one of the primary traits of the Russian "Grand School" of pianism, (which clearly, was not confined to Russia :-)

P.s. There is reason one sees and hears young tyros in competitions and their careers playing Rachmaninoff and Prokofiev concerti, but not either of the Brahms.

[Gurn Blanston]

You know that theme that Beethoven loved so much, the one from 'Creatures of Prometheus' that he used for the contradanse WoO14 #7, then for the 15 variations for piano Opus 35, the Eroica Variations, and then for the final movement of Symphony #3?  Yes, that one. I really, really don't like that theme. There, I said it.

[Pat B]

You know that theme that Beethoven loved so much, the one from 'Creatures of Prometheus' that he used for the contradanse WoO14 #7, then for the 15 variations for piano Opus 35, the Eroica Variations, and then for the final movement of Symphony #3?  Yes, that one. I really, really don't like that theme. There, I said it.

Delete post, ban user.

[Jo498]

I love it. I am not sure but it must have been one of the first Beethoven themes and movements I loved all the way through. The first Beethoven symphonies I encountered were 3,6, and 9 and the first two movements of the Eroica were pretty tough for me with almost boring stretches between the "good bits". But the finale with that great melody was no problem.
(The first large scale Beethoven piece I similarly cherished in all movements was probably the 5th piano concerto but this was a few months later, I think.)

[Karl Henning]

I can't get Art Of Fugue out of my head   

Why, of course you cannot.

[PerfectWagnerite]

You know that theme that Beethoven loved so much, the one from 'Creatures of Prometheus' that he used for the contradanse WoO14 #7, then for the 15 variations for piano Opus 35, the Eroica Variations, and then for the final movement of Symphony #3?  Yes, that one. I really, really don't like that theme. There, I said it.

Me neither, and I love Ludwig as much as anyone on this forum. That theme is just not that interesting.

I also really dislike Mozart's variations on Twinkle Twinkle Little Star. It gets broadcasted every other day on the radio. I don't see what is so interesting about this piece.

[Karl Henning]

I also really dislike Mozart's variations on Twinkle Twinkle Little Star. It gets broadcasted every other day on the radio. I don't see what is so interesting about this piece.

There's nothing wrong with the piece.  But, good grief, it is not anything anyone need hear every day, fer gosh sakes.

[Thatfabulousalien]

Why, of course you cannot.

I listen to it all the time but it's annoying me right now:


"Daaahhh Daaaah Daaahhhh Daaahhh Daahh Da da daaaahh da da da "

You know that variation/subject? 

[Gurn Blanston]

I love it. I am not sure but it must have been one of the first Beethoven themes and movements I loved all the way through. The first Beethoven symphonies I encountered were 3,6, and 9 and the first two movements of the Eroica were pretty tough for me with almost boring stretches between the "good bits". But the finale with that great melody was no problem.
(The first large scale Beethoven piece I similarly cherished in all movements was probably the 5th piano concerto but this was a few months later, I think.)

I'm sure you are in the majority, I see a lot of people post the finale of the 3rd as their favorite movement (it's the scherzo for me). Obviously Beethoven loved it, he used it at least 4 times. It doesn't bother me to not be on the same page as him (or you, in this case), it is like the following:

Me neither, and I love Ludwig as much as anyone on this forum. That theme is just not that interesting.

I also really dislike Mozart's variations on Twinkle Twinkle Little Star. It gets broadcasted every other day on the radio. I don't see what is so interesting about this piece.

Not to defend that insipid little tune, I deplore it at least as much as you do. But when Mozart wrote those variations, 'Twinkle Twinkle...' didn't exist. It was just a French folksong that caught his ear. I will assume that at some point in time his little variations became popular enough that some ass decided to set a lullaby poem to them, and the rest is history. People are strange that way: if you love something, kill it...

[Jo498]

Today I think that the first two movements of the Eroica are the best but as a beginner they were too long and too difficult for me. And I still like the finale a lot (and think that it is a somewhat underrated movement). I also love the variations op.35.
It is just a little contredanse, so it is not supposed to be all that interesting. But it is far more inspired than Diabelli's waltz!

As for unpopular Beethoven opinions: I don't care all that much for several of the most famous "named" piano sonatas like Pathetique, Appassionata, Waldstein. Of course, they are very good. But so are many less famous ones and the ones mentioned are not among my favorites (the "Tempest" is a big favorite of mine, though).

[kishnevi]

The history of  Twinkle, twinkle
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twinkle,_Twinkle,_Little_Star
And the song as Mozart knew it
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ah!_vous_dirai-je,_maman

Wikipedia gives a list of composers to avoid if you don't like the tune

Many songs in various languages have been based on the "Ah! vous dirai-je, maman" melody. In English, "Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star", the "Alphabet Song", and "Baa, Baa, Black Sheep" are all based on this melody.

The German Christmas carol "Morgen kommt der Weihnachtsmann (de)" with words by Hoffmann von Fallersleben, also uses the melody, as does the Hungarian Christmas carol "Hull a pelyhes fehér hó", the Dutch "Altijd is Kortjakje ziek (nl)", the Spanish "Campanita del lugar (es)", the Greek "Φεγγαράκι μου λαμπρό" and the Turkish "Daha Dün Annemizin".

Several classical compositions have been inspired by this tune:

Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, Twelve Variations on "Ah vous dirai-je, Maman" (K. 265 / K. 300e) (1781 or 1782)
Johann Christoph Friedrich Bach, Variations on "Ah vous dirai-je maman" in G major (Wf XII: 2) (BR A 45) (1st publ. ca. 1880)
Joseph Haydn, Symphony No. 94 (Surprise Symphony), second movement (andante) (1791); Haydn also quotes it The Seasons: Spring*
Jean-Baptiste Cardon (hu) (1760–1803), Variations for harp on "Ah! vous dirai-je, maman"
Theodor von Schacht, 3rd movement (Allegretto con variazioni) of his clarinet concerto in B flat major
Franz Liszt, Album Leaf: "Ah! vous dirai-je, maman" (1833) (S.163b)
Johann Christian Heinrich Rinck, Variations and finale for organ on "Ah! vous dirai-je, maman", op. 90 (pub. 1828)
Adolphe Adam, Bravura Variations from the opera Le toréador (1849)
Camille Saint-Saëns, The Carnival of the Animals (1886), 12th movement (Fossiles) quotes the tune
Ernő Dohnányi, Variations on a Nursery Tune, Op. 25 (1914)
Erwin Schulhoff, Ten Variations on "Ah! vous dirai-je, maman" and Fugue
John Corigliano, The Mannheim Rocket
Harl McDonald, Children's Symphony, 2nd theme of 1st movement (Baa, Baa, Black Sheep variant) (1948)

* Gurn are you sure that tune is insipid?

[Karl Henning]

Yes, sir, yes, sir: three bags full.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[Gurn Blanston]

The history of  Twinkle, twinkle
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twinkle,_Twinkle,_Little_Star
And the song as Mozart knew it
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ah!_vous_dirai-je,_maman

Wikipedia gives a list of composers to avoid if you don't like the tune

* Gurn are you sure that tune is insipid?

Well, Haydn had an ear for interesting things. But if you think about where and how he uses it, it is like a minor scale, up and back down, and then he moves on. The diminished tone makes it interesting again, and it's swift disappearance doesn't hurt either.

Haydn used a lot of insipid little tunes, he just knew how to make the most of them and then move on. I think the aversion to "Twinkle" stems more from the incessant repetition, it's like what, 12 variations?  Yikes!

[PerfectWagnerite]

I think the aversion to "Twinkle" stems more from the incessant repetition, it's like what, 12 variations?  Yikes!

Right, the variations themselves are pretty awful - you almost can't believe Mozart wrote them...

[kishnevi]

I'l have to dig out my Van Oort (not really--it's on a top shelf of my CD rack) and listen to that piece, been quite a while for me.

Mind you some of those composers probably used it because it was insipid (Saint Saens, for instance).

[Monsieur Croche]

I can't get Art Of Fugue out of my head   

I'd advise purging it or exorcising it out; because you want room in your head for other stuff.

[Jaakko Keskinen]

Might as well mention this here, since it probably belongs in this thread: I greatly dislike the music of Urlicht-movement in Resurrection Symphony during certain lines which I happen to dislike from poetry perspective as well. Thank you to Mahlerian for pointing out the same music recurring modified in the finale (for some reason I have great difficulties in recognizing the recurring themes in Mahler's symphonies when they do in fact recur).

[The Six]

The Price is Right's soundtrack is better than half of all the music of the classical era.

[Ken B]

The Price is Right's soundtrack is better than half of all the music of any era.

FTFY

This is a simple consequence of Sturgeon's Law

[zamyrabyrd]

My piano teacher never forgave me for not wanting to play Haydn's last piano sonata in Eb.
I still find it insipid and boring even though I tried to warm up to it several times just to see if I could change my own opinion about it.

ZB