Recordings That You Are Considering

[GioCar]

Hello - I have 5 sets of Wolfie's Piano Concertos (Anda, Schiff, & Zacharias on MI) & Sofronitzki and Bilson on fortepiano - I find the Bilson somewhat out of balance w/ the fortepiano sounding in the background & the Sofronitzki somewhat lacking in the orchestral accompaniment (but I would certainly not say 'terrible') - I'm looking forward to a 'box release' of Brautigam and would probably do a replacement.  Dave

Hi Dave, my "terrible" was referring to the orchestral accompaniment of the Brautigam set (even if I don't think the set is completed yet), not of the Sofronitzki. See for example these reviews:
http://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-16185/?search=1
http://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-15963/?search=1
(usually my taste is quite similal to Hurwitz's)
What I'd really like is to avoid the "asthmatic", "anorexing" playing typical of some HIP orchestral groups (luckily this now seems to be disappearing if compared to the earlier HIP times) such as that described by Hurwitz. 

[jlaurson]

Hi Dave, my "terrible" was referring to the orchestral accompaniment of the Brautigam set (even if I don't think the set is completed yet), not of the Sofronitzki. See for example these reviews:
http://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-16185/?search=1
http://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-15963/?search=1
(usually my taste is quite similal to Hurwitz's)
What I'd really like is to avoid the "asthmatic", "anorexing" playing typical of some HIP orchestral groups (luckily this now seems to be disappearing if compared to the earlier HIP times) such as that described by Hurwitz.

I cannot, in any way, figure out what Hurwitz is talking about. I have several recordings in this series, albeit not those two you referenced, and I'll make a point of listening to them today, again. (Also no immediate wow-factor, either.) But I never had a problem with the Cologne Academy (though it is undoubtedly a HIP, smallish, pick-up band... but then that's true for almost every HIP orchestra except Freiburg and Berlin and I'm not even sure about the latter. And the bit about the fortepiano sounds like nonsense; Brautigam (and Bezuidenhout) play the best sounding instruments there are, consistently.

[Brian]

I don't share Hurwitz's gripes with the Brautigam series, but I do think that some of the performances are dry and witless (not in the "stupid" sense, but literally, lacking in wit) - they're a little beige contrasted with the light-on-feet grace of Casadesus/Szell or Schiff/Vegh.

[André]

Personally, I don't think I could so something like this. Now, culling around 100 or so recordings might be easier, but these will recordings of music I just don't like or unnecessary duplication. What are you going to do with all of those recordings you don't want? Sell them? Donate them?

It's a tough undertaking, yielding less results than I thought (I have put aside approx 600 discs so far, and may not reach the 1000 mark). I haven't done the american, british, baltic and scandinavian music sections yet. I will still be left with about 5000 discs. A good deal of those are copies of discs I have already sold over the years. There was a good second hand market back then. I don't know what market there is nowadays. I shall find out in a few weeks. First, I'll offer them to friends who have expressed interest.

[SonicMan46]

Hi Dave, my "terrible" was referring to the orchestral accompaniment of the Brautigam set (even if I don't think the set is completed yet), not of the Sofronitzki. See for example these reviews:
http://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-16185/?search=1
http://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-15963/?search=1
(usually my taste is quite similal to Hurwitz's)
What I'd really like is to avoid the "asthmatic", "anorexing" playing typical of some HIP orchestral groups (luckily this now seems to be disappearing if compared to the earlier HIP times) such as that described by Hurwitz.

Hi - sorry about my misunderstanding - I've read the first of your links above previously and to date have not purchased any of Brautigam's Mozart PC discs (probably waiting for a non-Hurwitzian viewpoint!) - I do own Brautigam doing Wolfie's Piano Sonatas.

My previous response relative to Sofronitzki also relates to the orchestra used w/ some mixed reviews - I enjoy the performances and prefer to the Bilson recordings, but others would disagree - attached is a PDF w/ three reviews, 2 positive and one a 'thumbs down' from Gramophone - I would have to go w/ the positive comments; also, her husband is Paul McNulty who built her fortepiano based on an Anton Walter original.  Dave
.

[kishnevi]

My tuppence
I got the first two Brautigam CDs and was rather underwhelmed by them, so I stopped following that series.

I have Sofronitsky, and think it was well done. Certainly on the same level as my two modern piano sets, Perahia and Brendel.

[GioCar]

Thank you friends for your comments! I'd probably go for the Sofronitzki 
AFAIK Paul McNulty built fortepianos for Bilson and Brautigam as well... maybe that one for her is better than the others? After all, she's his wife... 

[Pat B]

I cannot, in any way, figure out what Hurwitz is talking about.

As far as I can tell, he has a template and a thesaurus, and not necessarily a working playback system.

These recordings are on spotify, so you can listen to any of them.

[jlaurson]

As far as I can tell, he has a template and a thesaurus, and not necessarily a working playback system.

These recordings are on spotify, so you can listen to any of them.

I re-played the ones I have and enjoyed them more than initially, where I was positively lukewarm. Now I'm ambivalently positive with a soupçon of enthusiasm, actually.

[Karl Henning]

As far as I can tell, he has a template and a thesaurus, and not necessarily a working playback system.

I've read more than one review which had me wondering along just those lines.

[PerfectWagnerite]

I cannot, in any way, figure out what Hurwitz is talking about. I have several recordings in this series, albeit not those two you referenced, and I'll make a point of listening to them today, again. (Also no immediate wow-factor, either.) But I never had a problem with the Cologne Academy (though it is undoubtedly a HIP, smallish, pick-up band... but then that's true for almost every HIP orchestra except Freiburg and Berlin and I'm not even sure about the latter.

Most every other HIP orchestra do not sound like smallish pickup bands. The Concentus Mus. Wien, Handel and Haydn Society, Orchestra of the 18th Century etc. play with as full a sound as any modern ensemble.

[jlaurson]

Most every other HIP orchestra do not sound like smallish pickup bands. The Concentus Mus. Wien, Handel and Haydn Society, Orchestra of the 18th Century etc. play with as full a sound as any modern ensemble.

They may not sound it, but that's what they are. (Well, except not small, when they pick up extra people.) The number of players is usually determined by work or ideology; and not of them are full time orchestras... that's all I meant.

[Parsifal]

They may not sound it, but that's what they are. (Well, except not small, when they pick up extra people.) The number of players is usually determined by work or ideology; and not of them are full time orchestras... that's all I meant.

"Pick-up band" may not be the right phrase. These ensembles may be part time gigs for musicians who play in other ensembles, but I have noticed that personnel tends to be consistent from recording to recording (at least for the groups I follow, the CMW, AAM, etc). To me "pick-up band" implies changing personnel depending on who is available at any point in time.

[king ubu]

Guess I'm somewhat more in the Bilson camp, too ... but I really enjoy the Sofronitzky box as well - it has a looser, more spontaneous quality that is right down my alley.

[PerfectWagnerite]

"Pick-up band" may not be the right phrase. These ensembles may be part time gigs for musicians who play in other ensembles, but I have noticed that personnel tends to be consistent from recording to recording (at least for the groups I follow, the CMW, AAM, etc). To me "pick-up band" implies changing personnel depending on who is available at any point in time.

Pickup band has a rather amateurish connotation. By strict letter of the term then the Bayreuth Festival Orchestra is a pickup band because the musicians mostly have fulltime gigs elsewhere.

[king ubu]

who care about the Bayreuth dudes when you can have the Vienna Phil as a pick-up band? 

[jlaurson]

who care about the Bayreuth dudes when you can have the Vienna Phil as a pick-up band? 

That's funny, but not really true (since they are a fix subset of another orchestra)...

Pickup band has a rather amateurish connotation. By strict letter of the term then the Bayreuth Festival Orchestra is a pickup band because the musicians mostly have fulltime gigs elsewhere.

...whereas this *is* true, in a technical sense. Or a "summer band". But as you well know, the turnover is very slow in that orchestra, and the members conservatively vote on who gets invited to audition for open spots... so they are extremely consistent for a pick-up band...

"Pick-up band" may not be the right phrase. These ensembles may be part time gigs for musicians who play in other ensembles, but I have noticed that personnel tends to be consistent from recording to recording (at least for the groups I follow, the CMW, AAM, etc). To me "pick-up band" implies changing personnel depending on who is available at any point in time.

...and this is true, too, in that these bands, which I like to call pick-up bands all the same, even if that's being sloppy (as that description could more aptly fit some orchestras, if more judiciously and narrowly applied than I do), do have a core of players that is being drawn upon and who, lest they are not available on an occasion or two, show up to play. Another term, perhaps better suited, might be "telephone orchestra" -- but then that's also a fair description of the London Symphony Orchestra, famously the world's best pick-up band.

[Jo498]

As the personnel is often explicitly listed in the case of HIP ensembles one can see how far these bands are stable or fluctuating. Until the 80s and early nineties the pool of wind/brass players was fairly limited, so you basically had one British pool of them and maybe a franco-flemish one with the Viennese Concentus musicus being somewhat isolated from the rest (many of them used to have their "day jobs" with the Vienna Symphony, like Harnoncourt himself until 1969). Of course,  there are more string players and by now there are altogether far more HIP musicians, so one gets at least another "Italian pool" and probably a "Cologne pool" as well.
But there is still quite a bit of overlap in personnel between some ensembles.

[Drasko]

[PerfectWagnerite]

Best Violin Concerto / Romances... but the Symphonies are not everyone's cup of tea; HIP but with Barenboim tempos. Not as lively; certainly not as 'radical' as other HIPsters in Beethoven or as tip-toe rocking as his Schubert... but very musical.

Thanks, just pulled the trigger on this and the Schubert as well.