So I Like This Woman At Work...

[Corey]

No, I was being ironic. Perhaps irony is another decadent feature of Western culture.

Ha sorry, you didn't add the obligatory smiley emoticons

[ibanezmonster]

Some of the most magnificent music in the world came out of heartbreak and love for someone else.

I've heard this before, but I think it's a pretty small fraction. Also, music composition is more of a focus in technique than that type of expression.

I think more of the music I like is inspired by existential themes. In fact, right now I'm listening to an example- BTBAM's Telos, the middle part has a type of explosive passion, but it's an existential, ecstatic mystery-type. Simply out of this world.

Yes. I feel similarly about the West's moronic emphasis on "happiness".

It's probably best to give up on happiness, since the economy doesn't allow it any more.

[springrite]

It's probably best to give up on happiness, since the economy doesn't allow it any more.

Happiness is dependent on the economy? Money?

Well, that's why most people will never truly be happy, money or not.

[Mirror Image]

I've heard this before, but I think it's a pretty small fraction. Also, music composition is more of a focus in technique than that type of expression.

I think more of the music I like is inspired by existential themes. In fact, right now I'm listening to an example- BTBAM's Telos, the middle part has a type of explosive passion, but it's an existential, ecstatic mystery-type. Simply out of this world.

The novelty pieces of classical music are a focus on technique. Music is about emotional expression and, yes, there are plenty of emotions besides that of love. My point is that music feeds off emotions, not technique for it's own sake. Technique is secondary to the music itself.

[ibanezmonster]

Happiness is dependent on the economy? Money?

Well, that's why most people will never truly be happy, money or not.

Well, considering money is almost everything...
money buys time.
money buys the ability to do what you want to do.
money buys health.
money buys preferred lifestyle choice.
money buys being able to live where you want to.
money buys not having to work yourself to death just to survive.
money buys the ability to achieve your goals.
money buys basic survival- food, shelter, etc.


I guess if you were a robot with no feelings, ambitions or goals, you could be happy without money. I know people somewhat like this- they're cool with anything. They either work or play video games or go to bars and achieve nothing. That's a very empty, uninspiring existence (except for the video games). They get nowhere, and yes, they are pretty simple people (though I hate to say it like this, them being friends/acquaintances).

It's a different story with anyone who wants to actually be able to do something with their life through hard work.

[Mirror Image]

Well, considering money is almost everything...
money buys time.
money buys the ability to do what you want to do.
money buys health.
money buys preferred lifestyle choice.
money buys being able to live where you want to.
money buys not having to work yourself to death just to survive.
money buys the ability to achieve your goals.
money buys basic survival- food, shelter, etc.


I guess if you were a robot with no feelings, ambitions or goals, you could be happy without money. I know people somewhat like this- they're cool with anything. They either work or play video games or go to bars and achieve nothing. That's a very empty, uninspiring existence (except for the video games). They get nowhere, and yes, they are pretty simple people (though I hate to say it like this, them being friends/acquaintances).

It's a different story with anyone who wants to actually be able to do something with their life through hard work.

Money is also not a means to an end. It is the root of all evil. It's important to have it, but it's not everything. Building relationships with people whether at work or in your personal life is also an important aspect of life.

[ibanezmonster]

Money is also not a means to an end. It is the root of all evil. It's important to have it, but it's not everything. Building relationships with people whether at work or in your personal life is also an important aspect of life.

Money is also the root of all survival. You can't build relationships with people if you're dead because you can't eat. You can't eat if you don't have money.

[springrite]

Well, considering money is almost everything...
money buys time.
money buys the ability to do what you want to do.
money buys health.
money buys preferred lifestyle choice.
money buys being able to live where you want to.
money buys not having to work yourself to death just to survive.
money buys the ability to achieve your goals.
money buys basic survival- food, shelter, etc.


I guess if you were a robot with no feelings, ambitions or goals, you could be happy without money. I know people somewhat like this- they're cool with anything. They either work or play video games or go to bars and achieve nothing. That's a very empty, uninspiring existence (except for the video games). They get nowhere, and yes, they are pretty simple people (though I hate to say it like this, them being friends/acquaintances).

It's a different story with anyone who wants to actually be able to do something with their life through hard work.

Oh Grand Master, I see you have everything mapped out. You must be the wisest man on the planet. The rest should just quit. You should write a book that will be the best seller and save the human race.

[Mirror Image]

Money is also the root of all survival. You can't build relationships with people if you're dead because you can't eat. You can't eat if you don't have money.

Well duh, Greg! What I'm saying, and I guess you just missed my point and didn't bother acknowledging it, is that money ISN'T everything. If you think it is, then that's great, but you're a pathetic, empty person if you think it's the only thing in this life that matters.

[springrite]

It's a different story with anyone who wants to actually be able to do something with their life through hard work.

Apparently that is you.

I guess if you were a robot with no feelings, ambitions or goals, you could be happy without money. I know people somewhat like this- they're cool with anything. They either work or play video games or go to bars and achieve nothing. That's a very empty, uninspiring existence (except for the video games).

And apparently people unlike you (and not rich) are necessarily like this.

[CriticalI]

Happiness is dependent on the economy? Money?

To put it another way, basic happiness is dependent on having food and a roof over one's head, and the reasonable surety that this won't be suddenly taken away (no sure thing in these times). Basic happiness must also mean having time to one's self, and not having to beg the indulgence of others merely to survive. You can't have any of these without money.

The novelty pieces of classical music are a focus on technique. Music is about emotional expression and, yes, there are plenty of emotions besides that of love. My point is that music feeds off emotions, not technique for it's own sake. Technique is secondary to the music itself.

I think you're both wrong   I read a book about writing a while ago which clarified my thoughts on the assessment of art: the focus of the artist is neither the medium (technical achievement) nor the message (emotional or other communication), but rather the creation of a total aesthetic/emotional/intellectual experience for the audience. All the other things are directed toward that end.

[ibanezmonster]

Oh Grand Master, I see you have everything mapped out. You must be the wisest man on the planet. The rest should just quit. You should write a book that will be the best seller and save the human race.

No, that's Ubloobideega's job.
He will be our new leader and resurrect Kim Jong Il to be vice dictator. And by "save," I understand you state that term to have a very broad, vague definition, hm?... 

Well duh, Greg! What I'm saying, and I guess you just missed my point and didn't bother acknowledging it, is that money ISN'T everything. If you think it is, then that's great, but you're a pathetic, empty person if you think it's the only thing in this life that matters.

There's a reason for the phrase "Money isn't everything." It's because it's pretty close. Of course you can't literally buy everything with money. You can't buy a time machine or a good personality or the ability to appreciate art, but most things you can buy with money. If you take a walk outside and try to find stuff in which money isn't (or can't be involved), you won't find much. Maybe the sky and the air. Land can be bought and sold, though. Not sure what else would be free.

Apparently that is you.

And apparently people unlike you (and not rich) are necessarily like this.

People that are poor and have very little means to achieve a lot (unless the hobby isn't too expensive) and are happy at the same time would have to be content with just chillin' and working. I mean, only logically, if they couldn't afford to achieve anything they wanted to, they could either sigh "oh well," or they just wouldn't be content with that. Or something else in between...?

[Corey]

Buddhist monks and other acetic types do pretty well without money. The difference is mainly that they don't buy in to the collected fantasy (and hence attaining a level of absolute truth for a lot of people) that you must have money to survive (and to be "happy").

Those "other people" Greg described seem to have money but spend it badly, which is mostly a class (another shared illusion!) issue.

[springrite]

Basically, much of the argument can be summed up as "the only people who can possibly be happy are people just like me except with money"...

[Corey]

I'm arguing for the exact opposite!

[Florestan]

If you take a walk outside and try to find stuff in which money isn't (or can't be involved), you won't find much.

If you look in the wrong direction, sure you won't.

The smile of a beautiful woman passing by.
A sunset clothed in gold, scarlet and dark grey.
An old tree full of chirping birds.
The look in the eyes of a dog begging for food or play.
A cat taking a nap in an open window of an old house.
A lonely organist playing some unknown choral in an empty church.
The myriad twinkling stars on a summer night.
A cuckoo singing somewhere in the woods right after a refreshing rain.

All these and many more are things that money can't buy.

Oh and one more thing: it's not the economy that makes you unhappy but yourself.

[Florestan]

Buddhist monks and other acetic types do pretty well without money. The difference is mainly that they don't buy in to the collected fantasy (and hence attaining a level of absolute truth for a lot of people) that you must have money to survive (and to be "happy").

Those "other people" Greg described seem to have money but spend it badly, which is mostly a class (another shared illusion!) issue.

Although I don't subscribe to the essentially contemplative and passive Eastern weltanschauung, I do agree that the West has gone way too far in the opposite direction.

[Florestan]

They either work or play video games or go to bars and achieve nothing. That's a very empty, uninspiring existence (except for the video games).

Oh yes, playing video games all day long is the paragon of a fulfilled and inspiring life...

I'd rather be acquainted with a regular bar-goer, among whom one can often find intelligent and educated people with whom one can talk about plenty of subjects, than with a video games nut who knows nothing of the world outside except a keyboard, a joystick and a screen. 

[springrite]

I'm arguing for the exact opposite!

Me as well. 

[Ataraxia]

I'd rather be acquainted with a regular bar-goer, among whom one can often find intelligent and educated people with whom one can talk argue about plenty of subjects, than with a video games nut who knows nothing of the world outside except a keyboard, a joystick and a screen.