Your Favored Opera Composer

[DavidRoss]

Of course there's rational discrimination, based on informed experience, and there's irrational discrimination, based on ignorant prejudice.

[Scarpia]

Of course there's rational discrimination, based on informed experience, and there's irrational discrimination, based on ignorant prejudice.

Oddly enough, I've only seen the two Italians live, although I voted Mozart.  I've watched a fair bit of Mozart, Wagner and Handel on DVD and Bluray.

[Tsaraslondon]

It often surprises me how people pontificate on music they know nothing about. They hear a couple of pieces from an early opera by Verdi and profess to a profound dislike of his music, or they say that, having heard part of Rienzi, for instance, they came to the conclusion Wagner wasn't for them.

My love of opera, and in fact all the composers on this list, is based on over 40 years of opera going and record collecting. I have seen live all Verdi's major operas and have recordings of all of the others (except Oberto and i Lombardi). Of Mozart's operas, I have seen live all from Idomeneo onwards, and even his youthful Mitridate. I have recordings of all Puccini's operas except Le Villi and Edgar, and have seen all the others apart from La Rondine. The only Wagner opera I have seen is Tristan und Isolde (I am not quite such a Wagner fan), but I have recordings of all the mature operas from Tannhauser onwards, and listen to them often. I have only seen Handel's Giulio Cesare live, though I have also seen staged performances of the orotorios Hercules and Semele. I have a recordings of Rinaldo and Messiah, and numerous Handel recital records by the likes of David Daniels, Lorraine Hunt Lieberson, Joyce DiDonato, Sandrine Piau, Renee Fleming and Janet Baker.

I cannot understand a remark like I'm GLAD Verdi and Puccini lost. What does that mean? It's just like playground finger pointing. "Nah nah nah nah nah. You lost the competition!" and is really rather childish.

If my personal preference is for Verdi, it is based on years of watching and listening and because his music speaks to me personally just that bit more than the others do. Mozart would be my next choice, but really I love them all.

[San Antone]

It often surprises me how people pontificate on music they know nothing about. They hear a couple of pieces from an early opera by Verdi and profess to a profound dislike of his music, or they say that, having heard part of Rienzi, for instance, they came to the conclusion Wagner wasn't for them.

My love of opera, and in fact all the composers on this list, is based on over 40 years of opera going and record collecting. I have seen live all Verdi's major operas and have recordings of all of the others (except Oberto and i Lombardi). Of Mozart's operas, I have seen live all from Idomeneo onwards, and even his youthful Mitridate. I have recordings of all Puccini's operas except Le Villi and Edgar, and have seen all the others apart from La Rondine. The only Wagner opera I have seen is Tristan und Isolde (I am not quite such a Wagner fan), but I have recordings of all the mature operas from Tannhauser onwards, and listen to them often. I have only seen Handel's Giulio Cesare live, though I have also seen staged performances of the orotorios Hercules and Semele. I have a recordings of Rinaldo and Messiah, and numerous Handel recital records by the likes of David Daniels, Lorraine Hunt Lieberson, Joyce DiDonato, Sandrine Piau, Renee Fleming and Janet Baker.

I cannot understand a remark like I'm GLAD Verdi and Puccini lost. What does that mean? It's just like playground finger pointing. "Nah nah nah nah nah. You lost the competition!" and is really rather childish.

If my personal preference is for Verdi, it is based on years of watching and listening and because his music speaks to me personally just that bit more than the others do. Mozart would be my next choice, but really I love them all.

Thank you.

[DavidRoss]

It often surprises me how people pontificate on music they know nothing about. They hear a couple of pieces from an early opera by Verdi and profess to a profound dislike of his music, or they say that, having heard part of Rienzi, for instance, they came to the conclusion Wagner wasn't for them.

My love of opera, and in fact all the composers on this list, is based on over 40 years of opera going and record collecting. I have seen live all Verdi's major operas and have recordings of all of the others (except Oberto and i Lombardi). Of Mozart's operas, I have seen live all from Idomeneo onwards, and even his youthful Mitridate. I have recordings of all Puccini's operas except Le Villi and Edgar, and have seen all the others apart from La Rondine. The only Wagner opera I have seen is Tristan und Isolde (I am not quite such a Wagner fan), but I have recordings of all the mature operas from Tannhauser onwards, and listen to them often. I have only seen Handel's Giulio Cesare live, though I have also seen staged performances of the orotorios Hercules and Semele. I have a recordings of Rinaldo and Messiah, and numerous Handel recital records by the likes of David Daniels, Lorraine Hunt Lieberson, Joyce DiDonato, Sandrine Piau, Renee Fleming and Janet Baker.

If my personal preference is for Verdi, it is based on years of watching and listening and because his music speaks to me personally just that bit more than the others do. Mozart would be my next choice, but really I love them all.

Thanks, Philip. I didn't know all that about you but it helps explain why your opinions about opera carry so much weight. Views informed by such experience and tempered by such thoughtfulness bespeak their own authority.

Like you I'm still innocent enough to be surprised when people pontificate about things they know nearly nothing about, even though it's epidemic these days. I'm even more surprised when they actively resist becoming informed about the very things they express so much passion about.

[mc ukrneal]

It often surprises me how people pontificate on music they know nothing about. They hear a couple of pieces from an early opera by Verdi and profess to a profound dislike of his music, or they say that, having heard part of Rienzi, for instance, they came to the conclusion Wagner wasn't for them.

My love of opera, and in fact all the composers on this list, is based on over 40 years of opera going and record collecting. I have seen live all Verdi's major operas and have recordings of all of the others (except Oberto and i Lombardi). Of Mozart's operas, I have seen live all from Idomeneo onwards, and even his youthful Mitridate. I have recordings of all Puccini's operas except Le Villi and Edgar, and have seen all the others apart from La Rondine. The only Wagner opera I have seen is Tristan und Isolde (I am not quite such a Wagner fan), but I have recordings of all the mature operas from Tannhauser onwards, and listen to them often. I have only seen Handel's Giulio Cesare live, though I have also seen staged performances of the orotorios Hercules and Semele. I have a recordings of Rinaldo and Messiah, and numerous Handel recital records by the likes of David Daniels, Lorraine Hunt Lieberson, Joyce DiDonato, Sandrine Piau, Renee Fleming and Janet Baker.

I cannot understand a remark like I'm GLAD Verdi and Puccini lost. What does that mean? It's just like playground finger pointing. "Nah nah nah nah nah. You lost the competition!" and is really rather childish.

If my personal preference is for Verdi, it is based on years of watching and listening and because his music speaks to me personally just that bit more than the others do. Mozart would be my next choice, but really I love them all.

Great post. I too voted for Verdi, which was a tough vote over Mozart. I don't like all the names you listed equally, but I wouldn't pull one down to push the other up (this is just the way of things). In this (and in many other ways), you have been a great advocate for opera.

If you are looking for a recording of La Rondine, the one EMI is quite good and I was surprised how much I enjoyed it. I may have wished for more consistently great tunes, but there is enough here to satisfy. The singing is quite good too.

[Tsaraslondon]

If you are looking for a recording of La Rondine, the one EMI is quite good and I was surprised how much I enjoyed it. I may have wished for more consistently great tunes, but there is enough here to satisfy. The singing is quite good too.

I have that recording. My meaning wasn't clear. I meant that I haven't seen the opera on stage, although I have seen all the others post Manon Lescaut. For a rarely performed opera, it has done well in the studio. Both the Moffo/Molinari-Pradelli and the Te Kanawa/Maazel are excellent, though the EMI arguably trumps them both.

[mc ukrneal]

I have that recording. My meaning wasn't clear. I meant that I haven't seen the opera on stage, although I have seen all the others post Manon Lescaut. For a rarely performed opera, it has done well in the studio. Both the Moffo/Molinari-Pradelli and the Te Kanawa/Maazel are excellent, though the EMI arguably trumps them both.

Oh, my bad. Strangely, the one Puccini I have not seen is Manon Lescaut. I have been scheduled to see it several times, but each time (for various reasons), I have had to give the ticket to someone else. Never missed another one - it's always Manon. Coincidence?

[DavidRoss]

Oh, my bad. Strangely, the one Puccini I have not seen is Manon Lescaut. I have been scheduled to see it several times, but each time (for various reasons), I have had to give the ticket to someone else. Never missed another one - it's always Manon. Coincidence?

Ah, well, if you've seen one tear-jerking Italian opera about a fallen woman who dies tragically, you've seen 'em all.

[Tsaraslondon]

Ah, well, if you've seen one tear-jerking Italian opera about a fallen woman who dies tragically, you've seen 'em all.

Actually I can only think of three La Traviata, Manon Lescaut and  La Boheme , or maybe it should be four as Leoncavallo also wrote a version of La Boheme 

Can anyone think of any others? Have to be Italian remember. Massenet's Manon and Thais don't count.

[bhodges]

Can't help with the Italian opera question, but just wanted to add that I, too, have yet to see Manon Lescaut, for some reason, and I've seen all the others except Le Villi, Edgar and La rondine. (And thanks for your suggestions of Lescaut recordings, which I don't have, either.)

--Bruce

[DavidRoss]

Actually I can only think of three La Traviata, Manon Lescaut and  La Boheme , or maybe it should be four as Leoncavallo also wrote a version of La Boheme 

Can anyone think of any others? Have to be Italian remember. Massenet's Manon and Thais don't count.

or Bizet's Carmen.
Rigoletto and Suor Angelica for sure.Madame Butterfly more or less.

[Tsaraslondon]

or Bizet's Carmen.
Rigoletto and Suor Angelica for sure.Madame Butterfly more or less.

Carmen is a French opera so doesn't count. Gilda and Angelica were not fallen women in the sense the word is used in La Traviata ie a prostitute or courtesan. Madama Butterfly is a bit tenuos. She was a geisha, which is not quite the same thing.

[DavidRoss]

Carmen is a French opera so doesn't count. Gilda and Angelica were not fallen women in the sense the word is used in La Traviata ie a prostitute or courtesan. Madama Butterfly is a bit tenuos. She was a geisha, which is not quite the same thing.

"or Bizet's Carmen" follows your statement that Manon and Thais don't count (not Italian).

"Fallen woman" can be used as a euphemism for a prostitute, but the term generally refers to a woman who engages in sexual intercourse outside of marriage. Violetta, as a high class courtesan, was more like a geisha than a common prostitute.

[Tsaraslondon]

"or Bizet's Carmen" follows your statement that Manon and Thais don't count (not Italian).

"Fallen woman" can be used as a euphemism for a prostitute, but the term generally refers to a woman who engages in sexual intercourse outside of marriage. Violetta, as a high class courtesan, was more like a geisha than a common prostitute.

Though I think there is a strong distinction between Gilda and Angelica, who were both seduced, and Violetta and Manon, who chose their career paths. Manon, if you remember, was on her way to a convent as her behaviour was bringing disgrace on the family. She needed little persuasion to flee instead.

We are not told the circumstances of Violetta's early life, but one assumes she chose her career path, one that is seriously derailed when she falls in love with Alfredo.

There is no suggestion that Butterfly had had sex with anyone before Pinkerton (quite the reverse in fact), which makes her quite different from a courtesan, so I stand by my original statement.

Admittedly now, though,  we look at them all through twentieth and twenty-first century eyes. I doubt many people back then made much distinction between a woman who opts for a career as a courtesan and one who was seduced. Women nowadays rightly take more control of their destiny, though society still tends to view differently a woman who has several sexual partners from a man. She is often considered a slut, while for a man it is often still seen as a badge of honour.

Thomas Hardy caused quite a stir when he subtitled his novel Tess of the d'Urbevilles The Story of a Pure Woman. Many could not comprehend how a woman, such as Tess  could be called pure. Hardy was of course talking about her heart and her soul. He probably would have called Violetta (and Angelica and Gilda) pure too. I doubt he'd have said the same of Manon.