Favorite Haydn Symphonies Cycle (incomplete)

[DavidRoss]

Actually, I have done the symphonies the same way that you did. The Fischer was a combination of fallback + default acquisition when I bought the Big Box, which I did for other reasons than the symphonies. Not to say that I object to having them; I think they are the #1 choice for anyone wanting a complete set. 

How do you like the rest of the big box?

[Scarpia]

I'm not sure why you're perplexed about the release of the Davies set;  I think it's a good set and I really like how it was released complete instead of the dribbles that we get from Fey and most others.

I'm also not sure what you mean by "compelling need".  To be realistic, there's not any compelling need for any of these sets; anyways, that's how I see it.

I like the Davies Box a lot, despite the annoyance of applause at the end of each performance.  It is my favorite truely complete set.   (I prefer it to Dorati and Fischer.)

[Gurn Blanston]

Something new? The multi-volume LL series appears to be OOP and I've not found a newer one via the usual suspects. Wait -- just checked jpc. They show this available at the end of this month:

Nos. 1-75 plus some of the Londoners.

70 euros, makes it about 90 bucks shipped to the States.

Oh yes, everyone's been talking about it. It's the whole ball of wax except for 76 & 77 that they sold/gave to the BBC. I paid more than that for my first 2 boxes!! 

[Gurn Blanston]

How do you like the rest of the big box?

I got it for the keyboard trios, the sonatas, the Scottish songs and the baryton trios. They are all excellent, so everything else is a bonus. Like the symphonies, concertos et al. I paid $140 for it, so IMO it was a great bargain. 

[DavidRoss]

Oh yes, everyone's been talking about it. It's the whole ball of wax except for 76 & 77 that they sold/gave to the BBC. I paid more than that for my first 2 boxes!! 

Well, if Amazon/ideals cancels my orders, I'll be able to afford it guilt-free!

[Gurn Blanston]

I'm not sure why you're perplexed about the release of the Davies set;  I think it's a good set and I really like how it was released complete instead of the dribbles that we get from Fey and most others.

I'm also not sure what you mean by "compelling need".  To be realistic, there's not any compelling need for any of these sets; anyways, that's how I see it.

We needed another modern instrument symphony cycle when there isn't even a single complete PI one? One with applause at every turn. With skipped repeats? I've only heard a couple of disks out of it, but it doesn't beat out Fischer in my ears, so what's the point. That's all I'm saying. Did we need that? No. If you want to go beyond that and say 'do we need anything?', yes, we do. Even Neanderthals needed music.

[Karl Henning]

Haydn symphonies without repeats?  Didn't the conductor do any schooling?

[Gurn Blanston]

Haydn symphonies without repeats?  Didn't the conductor do any schooling?

I know; sad. Anyway, I read a review of the entire box by a pretty knowledgeable fellow and his reaction was tepid. All I'm saying is that if it was going to come out in this market, it should have been knock-your-nads-in-the-dirt good.

[DavidRoss]

I agree - and you didn't even mention Solti and the very representative sets by Bernstein and Szell - all of whom outshine Davis (imo).

Davis, sure -- but what about Davies?

[Sammy]

We needed another modern instrument symphony cycle when there isn't even a single complete PI one? One with applause at every turn. With skipped repeats? I've only heard a couple of disks out of it, but it doesn't beat out Fischer in my ears, so what's the point. That's all I'm saying. Did we need that? No. If you want to go beyond that and say 'do we need anything?', yes, we do. Even Neanderthals needed music.

Come on Gurn.  You like Fischer better, so there's no point in Davies?  That's just a personal opinion.  My view is that there can never be enough recordings of great music.  So I tip my hat to Davies and any other conductor who might venture into a Haydn symphony set.

[Daverz]

I agree - and you didn't even mention Solti and the very representative sets by Bernstein and Szell - all of whom outshine Davies (imo).

The original poll specified a "majority" of the symphonies being recorded.  I think that would also rule out Solomons, Bruggen, Harnoncourt, Weil, Kuijken, and one of my Lp only favorties, Leslie Jones.  A lot of conductors recorded the London Symphonies.  Szell didn't even record all the Londons, and I wouldn't call Bernstein representative as he recorded no pre-Paris symphonies.

[Gurn Blanston]

The original poll specified a "majority" of the symphonies being recorded.  I think that would also rule out Solomons, Bruggen, Harnoncourt, Weil, Kuijken, and one of my Lp only favorties, Leslie Jones.  A lot of conductors recorded the London Symphonies.  Szell didn't even record all the Londons, and I wouldn't call Bernstein representative as he recorded no pre-Paris symphonies.

Apparently the size of the task defeated most. As a nod to Don here, I will give tribute to Davies in that he did finish what he started! 

For those who are interested in PI numbers;

Hogwood       81
Goodman      60
Brüggen         42
Solomons      34
Harnoncourt  17 PI  13 MI = 30
Kuijkens         26
Pinnock          22
Weil               21
Minkowski      12

Then there are a dozen or more with fewer than 10.

Not sure if anyone could do this with MI versions (or would!) Certainly I can't.

[Gurn Blanston]

Come on Gurn.  You like Fischer better, so there's no point in Davies?  That's just a personal opinion.  My view is that there can never be enough recordings of great music.  So I tip my hat to Davies and any other conductor who might venture into a Haydn symphony set.

Of course. 90% of what gets written here is personal opinion. I'm guessing that my sudden shot of negativity, possibly the first you've seen from me in 10 years, has got you a bit unnerved.    It's OK, I'm not recommending a manufacturer's recall and Fahrenheit 451 session. I'm just not buying it myself. 

[Scarpia]

Of course. 90% of what gets written here is personal opinion. I'm guessing that my sudden shot of negativity, possibly the first you've seen from me in 10 years, has got you a bit unnerved.    It's OK, I'm not recommending a manufacturer's recall and Fahrenheit 451 session. I'm just not buying it myself. 

Your rage should be directed at Decca, which pulled the plug on Hogwood when the thing was almost finished!!!!  Astonishing that such a decision could make economic sense.  They might have been loosing money in the short term, they lost all of the potential profits from the only complete HIP set.

[Gurn Blanston]

Your rage should be directed at Decca, which pulled the plug on Hogwood when the thing was almost finished!!!!  Astonishing that such a decision could make economic sense.  They might have been loosing money in the short term, they lost all of the potential profits from the only complete HIP set.

Totally agree. But the thing that really puts it OTT is that they pulled the plug just as they got to the part of the cycle that would have made 75% of all the income; the Paris, Chunnel and London works! Good god! Do people still say 'dunderheads'? 

[Scarpia]

Totally agree. But the thing that really puts it OTT is that they pulled the plug just as they got to the part of the cycle that would have made 75% of all the income; the Paris, Chunnel and London works! Good god! Do people still say 'dunderheads'? 

Well, we don't know what was going on at Decca.  Maybe the conversation was something along the lines of "if we order those recording sessions, where will we get the cash to retrieve our tape recorders from the pawn shop?"

[Daverz]

I think you missed my point.  I was seconding Gurn's post that instead of yet another MI complete set (especially a mediocre one) it would have been preferred to have at least one PI complete set.   I just threw Szell and Bernstein in to underscore that they recorded what most people look for from Haydn to add to the three (at least) complete MI sets.

Sorry, I wasn't reading the thread closely enough.

However, I don't think that anyone, even an AR guy, needs to concern himself with how many PI recordings there are or aren't before making another recordings of something.

[DavidW]

Would Hogwood set, Kuijken's Paris and Chunnel and Minkowski's London set make a complete PI cycle?

btw this has been an awesome thread.  Wish I had not missed it, I had been busy at work and had computer troubles at home.

[mc ukrneal]

Would Hogwood set, Kuijken's Paris and Chunnel and Minkowski's London set make a complete PI cycle?

btw this has been an awesome thread.  Wish I had not missed it, I had been busy at work and had computer troubles at home.

I don;t think so - Hogwood goes to 75 I think and then you have a gap between 75 and 82? Goodman could fill 76-78, but not sure who is available for 79-81.

[Gurn Blanston]

Would Hogwood set, Kuijken's Paris and Chunnel and Minkowski's London set make a complete PI cycle?

btw this has been an awesome thread.  Wish I had not missed it, I had been busy at work and had computer troubles at home.

I don;t think so - Hogwood goes to 75 I think and then you have a gap between 75 and 82? Goodman could fill 76-78, but not sure who is available for 79-81.

Just as Neal says. Freiburg Baroque does a splendid #80, but in my own cobbled together cycle, I have Fischer in the 79 & 81 spots. Which he does admirably, I might add.