Blind Comparison: Berlioz Symphonie Fantastique

[Sergeant Rock]

I only see the dreaded GEMA warning 

"Unfortunately this SME-muisc-content is not available in Germany because GEMA has not granted the respective music publishing rights."


Sarge

[Brian]

1 - C2  This is the famous version by the world's greatest Berlioz conductor, a reference recording for many.
5 - C5 This conductor was infamous for fiddling with scores, "improving" them. This really should be marketed as "Berlioz hyphen Conductor."

Well now I know who those are 

[mc ukrneal]

Well now I know who those are 

But if C2 is who I think Sarge implies it is to me, then it could be one of several recordings he did.

[Karl Henning]

I only see the dreaded GEMA warning 

"Unfortunately this SME-muisc-content is not available in Germany because GEMA has not granted the respective music publishing rights."


Sarge

Oof. I'll try another performance . . . here's a high school production:

http://www.youtube.com/v/7Ev6_l8DZdg

[Sergeant Rock]

Oof. I'll try another performance . . . here's a high school production:

Got it...and the joke 

Sarge

[Karl Henning]

Aye, that GEMA warning stuff just ain't funny nae more : )

[Sergeant Rock]

With the deadline swiftly approaching, here are the results so far:

aukhawk  Brian  Anthony  mc urkneal  TimH  trung224  xochitl  Sarge  Misha K
    B2           B2         B2           A4            A4         B2          B2       C2        C2 
    A4           C2         C4           C4           C2         C5          C5       C4        C4
    C4           A4         C5           B2            B2         A4          C4       B2        B2
    C2           C5         A4           C2           C4         C2          C2       A4        A4
    C5           C4         C2           C5           C5         C4          A4       C5        C5

[mc ukrneal]

With the deadline swiftly approaching, here are the results so far:

aukhawk  Brian  Anthony  mc urkneal  TimH  trung224  xochitl  Sarge
    B2           B2         B2           A4            A4         B2          B2       C2
    A4           C2         C4           C4           C2         C5          C5       C4
    C4           A4         C5           B2            B2         A4          C4       B2
    C2           C5         A4           C2           C4         C2          C2       A4
    C5           C4         C2           C5           C5         C4          A4       C5

Sarge?!?! What's happening to us?!?! We actually agreed on 3 of the 5 - perfect synchronicity! But where it really counted, complete disagreement! I'm not sure which is the rule and which is the exception anymore!   Although, A4 was so different from the rest and clearly not a classical interpretation of the piece, so perhaps not the greatest indicator.

And in an interesting turn of events, B2 placed either first or third only (not 2nd, 4th or 5th). How odd that.

[Sergeant Rock]

Sarge?!?! What's happening to us?!?! We actually agreed on 3 of the 5 - perfect synchronicity! But where it really counted, complete disagreement! I'm not sure which is the rule and which is the exception anymore!   Although, A4 was so different from the rest and clearly not a classical interpretation of the piece, so perhaps not the greatest indicator.

Neal...Sarge...together at last!    Well, almost 

Sarge

[mc ukrneal]

 

Neal...Sarge...together at last!  Well, almost 

Sarge

[madaboutmahler]

Thank you for all the votes that have come through in the last day! Fascinating range in opinion, and some very interesting and enjoyable comments! Shall just wait until the end of the evening to close the voting.

And Karl, thanks for reminding me how much I miss Guys and Dolls from when we did it at school last winter! 

[MishaK]

Last ones:

C2 very nice orchestra. But a bit muddy recording though that may be the compression. Transition from reveries to passions a little clumsy. But the solo flute/violins blend in the first statement of the theme is excellent. Effective, restrained, almost classically proportioned first movement. Works very well conceptually.  Not overdone or overwrought emotionally. Buildup to closing section calibrated very well. Woodwinds sound European but not French or German. Very elegant ball. Nicely set scene for introduction of idee fixe. But could have a bit more lilt. More restrained and better blended cornet than b2. Wonderfully structured middle movement with very nice contrasts. Marvelously done. Nicely graduated dynamics in the timpani at the end. Nice bassoon dominance in the color blend at the opening of the march. Ideal character and pace. Captures the absurdity without sounding silly. Excellent orchestral balances. Wonderfully spooky final movement intro! Again superb blend of colors. Wish the bells were offstage. Good tuba/bassoon blend in dies irae. This is generally an excellent performance by a conductor who has clearly internalized Berlioz's idiom very well. Could be one of the many Colin Davis outings.

C4 the reveries section is a bit blocky and disjointed lacking a long line. The passions that follows is very good but almost schizophrenically intense. If you start out with this intensity you leave yourself little room for development in the last two movements. Well managed ball. Solid scene aux champs but without much charm or distinction. March is a little beyond the scary/absurd and a bit too strident and borderline comical for me. Nicely desperate last plea of the idee fixe at the end though. Nice offstage bells in final movement. Reasonably well blended tuba/bassoon mix in dies irae. Solid but not particularly gripping last movement overall. Orchestra sounds a bit labored and not quite comfortable with the material. Trombones are irritating. This is generally a competent, decently played performance of no particular distinction. Nothing terribly wrong, but not exceptional and could be more idiomatic and better structured overall and the band could be more virtuosic.

C5 clearly live performance. gorgeously magical opening bars! Wonderful atmosphere. Some very elegant string playing in reveries. Nicely impassioned passions without being over the top. Transition to the restatement is marvelous. Some of the accelerandos are clearly a bit too sudden for some of the strings to follow but A for effort. Some serious tinkering with the orchestration in the ball and cheesy portamentos. Unnecessarily hurried introduction and appearance of idee fixe too nonchalant. Otherwise ok ball. Opening rand des vaches in third movement has oddly mannered phrasing. Otherwise very atmospheric middle movement. Absolutely ridiculous march. A parody more than an interpretation. Bizarre tempo shifts with no rhyme or reason characterize the last movement beside some more severe reorchestrations. Ridiculous. A live Stoki performance?

All in all, C2 is the clear favorite, in part due to the weakness of the competition which ranges from bland to bizarre. C4 and B2 are the somewhat distant second tier.  A4 is simply unidiomatic and hurried while C5 is all about the conductor, not the piece. C2 beats the others principally because not only does each movement have a clear narrative line from beginning to end, but also the relationship of the movements among each other is very well thought out, careful attention is paid throughout to dynamic gradations and nuances of orchestral colors and blends.

[MishaK]

With the deadline swiftly approaching, here are the results so far:

aukhawk  Brian  Anthony  mc urkneal  TimH  trung224  xochitl  Sarge      MishaK
    B2           B2         B2           A4            A4         B2          B2       C2   C2
    A4           C2         C4           C4           C2         C5          C5       C4    C4
    C4           A4         C5           B2            B2         A4          C4       B2   B2
    C2           C5         A4           C2           C4         C2          C2       A4    A4
    C5           C4         C2           C5           C5         C4          A4       C5    C5

I took the liberty of adding my votes to the list above, since I was a latecomer to this comparison. ;-) Lo and behold, we agree on all the selections, Sarge!

[Brian]

All in all, C2 is the clear favorite, in part due to the weakness of the competition which ranges from bland to bizarre.

I thought so too - we wound up with one quite dull finalist, two quite bizarre/eccentric ones, and one or two bonafide contenders. We disagreed on which the contenders are (I had B2 and C2, not C2/4), but overall, obviously something about the first two rounds of voting led to our voting public making comparatively poor decisions! The finalists in the Debussy, Mahler, Strauss, etc. games I think were generally much stronger than this crop of curiosities.

I clearly need to listen to C2 again.

[MishaK]

Brian, in part it's due to the somewhat random selection of contenders. I just looked over what was eliminated in the early rounds in which I didn't participate. The only one I would shed tears over is the Rattle recording, which I actually love. That woodwind section does magic with the colors in this piece. Not sure why it didn't convince others. None of the rest (from the ones I've heard previously at least - I'm not familiar with a few of them like Dohnyani, Ticciati or Minkowski) would make it into my top ten Symphonie fantastiques and I own over 40 recordings of the work.  This is a difficult piece to put together and keep together and it speaks in its own unique language, quite apart from anything that came before and anything that followed. It's not something in which a generalist maestro will succeed interpretively and it's a piece that will bring a non-virtuoso orchestra to its knees in the final movement. It's not very forgiving IMHO.

[Sergeant Rock]

I took the liberty of adding my votes to the list above, since I was a latecomer to this comparison. ;-) Lo and behold, we agree on all the selections, Sarge!

Considering our past "debates" about the Fantastique, that is truly an amazing result. Nice to finally agree with you.

The only one I would shed tears over is the Rattle recording, which I actually love.

Sorry! I helped eliminate Rattle. It figured high in my first round voting but I placed it last in the second round (bal and Marche) primarily because I thought the waltz was too straight--rhythmically dull--lacking the rubato that is characteristic of this dance. Everything about the Marche seemed perfect (especially the "execution") but somehow it wasn't gripping. aukhawk wrote in one of his comments about the Rattle: "Beautiful but very repressed - reminds me of a girl I once knew ..."    Maybe that explains my negative reaction.

But I'll give it another shot. I did like the first and last movements.

Sarge

[Sergeant Rock]

Do the moderators know if Scots John and Johan are going to vote?

Sarge

[TheGSMoeller]

Do the moderators know if Scots John and Johan are going to vote?

Sarge

I don't think Johan is. But I'll PM S.John (in case he doesn't read this post).

Great results so far for the final. I knew that the diversity in the five movements of fantastique would cause for interesting votes, or splitting of votes as we progressed through the movements. Where some recordings may succeed in the finale, it may lack in the Rêveries – Passions or Un bal.

Hopefully we can post the results by the end of the weekend.

Once again, thank you all for participating in this (GMG's longest lasting) comparison. 

[aukhawk]

aukhawk wrote in one of his comments about the Rattle: "Beautiful but very repressed - reminds me of a girl I once knew ..."

The hairstyle fits, too 

[Lisztianwagner]

I haven't taken part in this blind comparison, but I have been following it with great interest; I'm looking forward to seeing the results.