Blind Comparison: Berlioz Symphonie Fantastique

[TheGSMoeller]

Lot's of talk about the waltz, which is fascinating. Being a strictly symphonic work it certainly gets a more varied approach, some straight-through, others diverse offering a more changing atmosphere.

What about the March? Do you prefer a more forward-charging, quick-footed pace? Or one with a heavier path, a slower creep to the guillotine?

[mc ukrneal]

By danceable I mean primarily a tempo that wouldn't leave a ballroom full of couples in elegant dress breathless and sweaty after 45 seconds 

Sarge

Ah! I see. He did take it a bit slower in that regard it seemed, so I guess I'd agree with you.

[Sergeant Rock]

I think one of the other reasons I say it is monotone is that the harps don't seem to me to have impact.

Do you own, or at least have heard, Norrington's period harps (four small Erard harps circa 1830) that he uses in the LCP recording? As Norrington says in the liner notes, "they make a delightfully clear sound."

Sarge

[mc ukrneal]

Do you own, or at least have heard, Norrington's period harps (four small Erard harps circa 1830) that he uses in the LCP recording? As Norrington says in the liner notes, "they make a delightfully clear sound."

Sarge

No. Nor did I listen to the A group in the first round. And since SOMEONE gave it the axe, I didn't get a chance to hear it in the second round. Are they good?  I didn't specifically listen for the harp in the clips, but I probably should have paid more attention to them (which I will do in the last round). I seem to remember Berlioz stressing their importance.

[aukhawk]

Shared responsibility for the axe surely?  No one person had that power. 

AS to danceable, I am unsure what to say. Rather, the fact that they will slow down or speed up does not, for me, make it undanceable. I picture in mind some sort of pose or controlled slowing movement that they sometimes do in dance. But a different view is equally valid, so this a question more of taste I think.

By danceable I mean primarily a tempo that wouldn't leave a ballroom full of couples in elegant dress breathless and sweaty after 45 seconds 

In any case, there was loads of rubato all through that Gergiev waltz, as I recall it.  Real-life ballroom dancers would definitely expect that.  (Dancers conjured up as a result of over-heated imagination might not.)

[Sergeant Rock]

Ah! I see. He did take it a bit slower in that regard it seemed, so I guess I'd agree with you.

In other words, I'm looking for something realistic in the second and fourth movements. I envision an actual ballroom and a reluctant if inexorable march to the guillotine. Conductors who insist on a crazy fast pace in both movements contradict, it seems to me, Berlioz's programmatic intentions. But I understand others are looking for something else; for example, Brian's "romantic excess, overheating, mood swings, energetic mania." It's good to keep in mind when we share our differences in rankings that we may be approaching the music from entirely different avenues and hence, our contradictory scores 

Sarge

[aukhawk]

What about the March? Do you prefer a more forward-charging, quick-footed pace? Or one with a heavier path, a slower creep to the guillotine?

I described the Gergiev march as 'a bit draggy' and that was supposed to be a compliment.
(late edit - see post above)

[Sergeant Rock]

No. Nor did I listen to the A group in the first round. And since SOMEONE gave it the axe

  Guilty as charged, your honor. 

Sarge

[Sergeant Rock]

What about the March? Do you prefer a more forward-charging, quick-footed pace? Or one with a heavier path, a slower creep to the guillotine?

My view is well-known. Norrington is perfection: the pace and the glorious clarity of his period instruments.

Sarge

[TheGSMoeller]

My view is well-known. Norrington is perfection: the pace and the glorious clarity of his period instruments.

Sarge

Agreed.

[Sergeant Rock]

Shared responsibility for the axe surely?  No one person had that power. 

In any case, there was loads of rubato all through that Gergiev waltz, as I recall it.

Yes, that too (I was going to mention how idiomatic Gergiev waltz was, but cut my reply to Neal short).

Sarge

[mahler10th]

I am very surprised to find Rattle and the BPO as my favourite, which didn't make it.  It will not stop me from acquiring that recording though.

[mc ukrneal]

In other words, I'm looking for something realistic in the second and fourth movements. I envision an actual ballroom and a reluctant if inexorable march to the guillotine. Conductors who insist on a crazy fast pace in both movements contradict, it seems to me, Berlioz's programmatic intentions. But I understand others are looking for something else; for example, Brian's "romantic excess, overheating, mood swings, energetic mania." It's good to keep in mind when we share our differences in rankings that we may be approaching the music from entirely different avenues and hence, our contradictory scores 

Sarge

You are right on! I always think of it as part fantasy and part waltz, which perhaps puts me somewhere in the middle I guess. I don't mind a more driving version, and in fact one of the earliest versions on record was quite fast (thinking of Monteux, who seems a bit off to the races). The other aspect we are missing here is the setup of the first movement to get us into the ball. Of course, we won't hear it now, but that is one of the necessary drawbacks of the way we eliminate 'contestants'.

[Sergeant Rock]

I am very surprised to find Rattle and the BPO as my favourite

We're all surprised, John    (The rest of us ranked it at or near the bottom, at least during the second round.)

Sarge

[mahler10th]

We're all surprised, John    (The rest of us ranked it at or near the bottom, at least during the second round.)

Sarge

I have written to a senior Ear Surgeon in Basel, Switzerland, who has offered to perform some high-level intricate surgery to remedy the matter for all concerned.  Except me of course.   

[Sergeant Rock]

Except me of course.   

Touché 

[MishaK]

Wow! I'm sorry to have been absent from GMG for so long to have missed this. Please include me in the next round. I'm an obsessive SF fanatic. BTW, I'm not surprised that the Rattle version ended up getting so much support. It's actually currently my favorite version. You just can't go wrong in French music with that magnificent woodwind section!

[madaboutmahler]

Sorry for the delay everyone, but all links have now been sent out for the final round. Thank you for your patience, and if you have any problems, please let Greg or I know.

Let's see where we are on the 24th Feb in terms of the voting deadline?

Hope everyone enjoys the final round, should be very exciting and interesting!!

[aukhawk]

  [ goes quiet for a while ] 

[TheGSMoeller]

Anyone?