What are you listening to now?

[SimonNZ]

Bach's [Violin] Sonatas and Partitas - Hopkinson Smith, lute

[(poco) Sforzando]

Ahh, on Vanguard! Thanks - will dig that up soon.

A brief check of metronome marks (impossible to get 100%, as players are always fluctuating - as it should be):

127/4:
Yale main: whole=66, coda: dotted quarter=63 or quarter=189
Alex main: whole=63, coda: quarter=112

Main point is that the Yale plays the coda in 2, while the Alex does it in 6.

133:
Yale 1st fugue: half=66, moderato: quarter=66, scherzo: dotted half=80
Alex 1st fugue: half=63, moderato: eighth=80 or quarter=40, scherzo: dotted half=72

Here the Yale plays the moderato in 2/4, while the Alex takes it in 4/8. And the Yale's 1st fugue is in precise relationship to their moderato, where the fugal subject continues through the section.

[Spineur]

Current listens...


F. Chopin, 20 Songs
Hana Blazikova & Katarina Drogosz
chopin institute
German link - UK link
Blazikova is magnificent here just as she is in Bach.

Could you say a little more about these works ?  What is the overall atmosphere and what can they be compared to ?
I have always found Chopin non-piano music (cello sonata, polonaise) to be quite interesting.  So I am curious about these polish songs.   

[amw]

In 133 presumably you meant dotted half for the "scherzo" section?

Two more average tempi (imo the two best recordings of the piece)

Hagen Quartet (2002)—1st fugue: half = 71; moderato: quarter = 68; Allegro molto e con brio: dotted half = 84
Arditti Quartet (1989)—1st fugue: half = 64; moderato: quarter = 42; Allegro molto e con brio: dotted half = 70

I see no problem with an unusually slow "meno mosso" personally, but can understand why some would take issue with it depending on how it's played.

[(poco) Sforzando]

In 133 presumably you meant dotted half for the "scherzo" section?

Two more average tempi (imo the two best recordings of the piece)

Hagen Quartet (2002)—1st fugue: half = 71; moderato: quarter = 68; Allegro molto e con brio: dotted half = 84
Arditti Quartet (1989)—1st fugue: half = 64; moderato: quarter = 42; Allegro molto e con brio: dotted half = 70

I see no problem with an unusually slow "meno mosso" personally, but can understand why some would take issue with it depending on how it's played.

Fixed above. My "problem" is that the tempo is not just Meno mosso, but Meno mosso e moderato. And since the motif from the 1st fugue continues as a counterpoint in the moderato, I find the Hagen-Yale approach more credible than the Alex-Arditti.

[jlaurson]

Current listens...


A. Bruckner, Symphony No."0"
Schaller / Philharmonie Festiva
Profil Hänssler
German link - UK link

F. Chopin, 20 Songs
Hana Blazikova & Katarina Drogosz
chopin institute
German link - UK link
Could you say a little more about these works ?  What is the overall atmosphere and what can they be compared to ?
I have always found Chopin non-piano music (cello sonata, polonaise) to be quite interesting.  So I am curious about these polish songs.   

To answer Spineur's question about Blazikova / Chopin Songs: Very nice! Certainly the CD of Haydn songs that most stuck with me, so far (I have only three)... and it strikes me as a better, more broadly appealing version of Russian Artsong... sometimes I forgot that it was either Polish or Chopin that I was listening to... certainly it's not "melodies".

[amw]

And since the motif from the 1st fugue continues as a counterpoint in the moderato, I find the Hagen-Yale approach more credible than the Alex-Arditti.

I think one could make the case that, just as during the 1st fugue the motive was presented in diminution and as its rhythm is significantly altered during the 2nd fugue, the episode is presenting it in augmentation. The two approaches also differ in their way of indicating that the section is an interruption and structurally superfluous—eg in the Hagen version the tempo remains psychologically unaltered but the dynamics are extremely restrained; in the Arditti version the slackened tempo has a similar effect of removing it from the main structure. Both of these approaches are effective at gradually ratcheting up the tension as the music persistently fails to leave the neighbourhood of G-flat major and return to the true structure. I find the slower tempo very effective in the return of the episode at bar 493, where the tempo combined with the Ardittis' over-emphatic accents on 1 and 3 of every single bar serves to undermine the key of A-flat major and make it almost painfully dissonant. (I haven't heard the Alexander recording, or for that matter the Yale.)

[Madiel]

I get what you are saying. But what would you like DECCA to do in this case?

Select a work that Kertesz recorded that actually fits in the space. Everyone seems to be thinking about picking up the process after 2 overtures have already been added to the program. Why? Why not, after deciding that Symphonies 4 and 5 go on one disc, and Symphony 6 goes on the second disc, select a work that actually fits in the remaining space?

It's not as if someone was holding a gun to their heads and saying that the fillers absolutely had to include the Carnival overture. Pick something else. Symphonic Variations? Three symphonies and a Symphonic Variations sounds like a pretty darn sensible program to me.

It's pretty clear that most designers of these things simply don't regard Nature, Life and Love as existing. Dvorak obviously contributed to this by having 3 separate opus numbers**, but I just find it frustrating that so many recordings are not giving people an understanding of the interconnected themes across the 3 overtures. And when the liner notes of a recording actually tell you that you're missing one piece of the whole, it's a bit strange.


**It's not completely clear to me how much of this decision was Dvorak's, and how much was Simrock's.

[Mirror Image]

Now:



Listening to Symphony No. 4. A symphony worthy to stand amongst the pantheon of symphonic masterpieces.

[Brian]

It's pretty clear that most designers of these things simply don't regard Nature, Life and Love as existing. Dvorak obviously contributed to this by having 3 separate opus numbers**, but I just find it frustrating that so many recordings are not giving people an understanding of the interconnected themes across the 3 overtures. And when the liner notes of a recording actually tell you that you're missing one piece of the whole, it's a bit strange.


**It's not completely clear to me how much of this decision was Dvorak's, and how much was Simrock's.

Dvorak's opus numbers are notoriously addled by publisher tricks, unreliable, and generally useless. I'm not sure why they are still so commonly used - surely this is a composer where switching to the alternate system (B. numbers in his case) would make tons of sense.

[Todd]

PC 2 and Op 117.  Primo recordings.

[listener]

GINASTERA Panambí, Estancia   complete ballets
London S.O.   Gisèle Ben-Dor cond.
same performance as on the $76.-- Conifer disc, a good purchase on the Naxos[asin]B000IY063E[/asin]
Michael CONWAY BAKER
Fanfare for EXPO '86, Suite from 'Planet for the Taking'. Concerto for Flute and Strings, Counterplay for Viola and String Orchestra,  4 Songs for Ann, Concerto for Piano and Chamber Orch.
CBC Vancouver Orch.,  Kazuyshi Akiyama, cond.
consdervative collection from the composer of the music to the film The Grey Fox, fits my mood today.

[SimonNZ]

Alla Zagaykevych's Air Mechanics - Kyiv Camerata

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtxACh40OOo

[jlaurson]

Current listens...


D. Scarlatti, Sonatas
Yevgeny Sudbin
BIS
German link - UK link

Yes!Yes!Yes!Yes!

[Madiel]

Dvorak's opus numbers are notoriously addled by publisher tricks, unreliable, and generally useless. I'm not sure why they are still so commonly used - surely this is a composer where switching to the alternate system (B. numbers in his case) would make tons of sense.

I agree that the published numbers have those problems. The thing is, Dvorak actually wrote opus numbers on his scores, quite conscientiously most of the time though I understand there may have been a couple of cases where he played passive-aggressive games with Simrock.

So if we went back to Dvorak's numbers, things would be a lot clearer.

[prémont]

The Yales are on Vanguard. Bought my CD set from amazon.com not that many years ago. They were extremly highly rated in the 70ies.

Did they record more Beethoven than the late quartets?

[prémont]

Current listens...

Johann Ernst Prinz von Sachsen-Weimar,
Complete Violin Concertos
& the Harpsichord transcriptions which Bach based upon these
Ensemble "Fürsten-Musik" / Anne Schumann, Sebastian Knebel
cpo[/url]

I would not call this great music, but nevertheless enjoyable and of particular interest for a Bachian. Spirited and energetic performances.

[(poco) Sforzando]

Did they record more Beethoven than the late quartets?

Unfortunately no.

[jlaurson]

I would not call this great music, but nevertheless enjoyable and of particular interest for a Bachian. Spirited and energetic performances.

Pretty much. I think more could be gotten out of these light early German baroque VCs, if the performances were as spirited but also a little more polished, but it's certainly lovely and the thing for precisely as you say the "interested Bachian".

[Jo498]

I think one could make the case that, just as during the 1st fugue the motive was presented in diminution and as its rhythm is significantly altered during the 2nd fugue, the episode is presenting it in augmentation. The two approaches also differ in their way of indicating that the section is an interruption and structurally superfluous—eg in the Hagen version the tempo remains psychologically unaltered but the dynamics are extremely restrained

I was used to a much slower tempo for the moderato section and almost shocked when I heard the Hagen for the first time. I do think that the moderato should sound slower, not simply allegro half note = moderato quarter (why write a long new tempo indication then...?) but it is probably often taken too slow.

"Theoretically" I also think that the dotted quarters of the 6/8 section should only be a little faster than the quarters of the first 4/4 part. The Hagen's are about the only ones fast enough for me in the 4/4 part but they are quite fast in the 6/8 as well, so according to my theory too fast in the latter. But maybe this "theory" is simply wrong. After all, there is a new tempo indication again for the 6/8 section.
But in the 9th symphony Beethoven simply writes "allegro assai" for the 4/4 version of the "Freude"-tune and the 6/8 alla marcia has "allegro vivace assai" but they are supposed to go at almost the same tempo. (Only we have here an error because some editions gave 84 for dotted quarters instead of dotted halfs)
To me this seems a close analogy, so I often find the typical contrast in op.133 of ca. 132 for quarters in the 4/4 vs 160 or even faster in the 6/8 too strong.