Classical music and emotions

[Florestan]

some guy, how do you know Berlioz didn't have the whole program in mind as he wrote the music?

A brief glimpse into the genesis of SF is offered by Berlioz himself. Here are his own words (emphasis mine):

Among other pieces I wrote a very sad one on words which expressed my despair at leaving the woods and the places honoured by the feet, illuminated by the eyes [La Fontaine, Les deux pigeons] and the little pink boots of my cruel beauty. This colourless poetry comes back to mind today together with the spring sunshine in London [April 1848], where I am beset by major worries and a terrible anxiety, seething with concentrated fury at having to face here as elsewhere so many absurd obstacles... Here is the first stanza:

            Je vais donc quitter pour jamais
            Mon doux pays, ma douce amie,
            Loin d'eux je vais traîner ma vie
            Dans les pleurs et dans les regrets!
            Fleuve dont j'ai vu l'eau limpide,
            Pour réfléchir ses doux attraits,
            Suspendre sa course rapide,
            Je vais vous quitter pour jamais.

    I burnt this romance, as well as the sextet and the quintets, before my departure for Paris, but the melody came discreetly back to my mind when in 1829 I undertook to write my Fantastic Symphony. It seemed to me to express exactly the overwhelming grief of a young heart in the first pangs of a hopeless love, and I adopted it. It is the melody sung by the first violins at the beginning of the largo in Part I of this work, which has the title: Dreams and Passions. I have not changed it in any way.

SF aside, there are plenty of other works which have an explicit programme. I will cite only three, one Baroque, one Romantic and one Modern.

Exhibit A: Vivaldi - The Four Seasons

No. 1 in E major, Op. 8, RV 269, "La primavera"

(sonnet printed in the score)

Allegro

Giunt' è la Primavera e festosetti
La Salutan gl' Augei con lieto canto,
E i fonti allo Spirar de' Zeffiretti
Con dolce mormorio Scorrono intanto:
Vengon' coprendo l' aer di nero amanto
E Lampi, e tuoni ad annuntiarla eletti
Indi tacendo questi, gl' Augelletti;
Tornan' di nuovo al lor canoro incanto:

Largo
E quindi sul fiorito ameno prato
Al caro mormorio di fronde e piante
Dorme 'l Caprar col fido can' à lato.

Allegro
Di pastoral Zampogna al suon festante
Danzan Ninfe e Pastor nel tetto amato
Di primavera all' apparir brillante.


Concerto No. 2 in G minor, Op. 8, RV 315, "L'estate"

(sonnet printed in the score)

Allegro non molto - Allegro
Sotto dura Staggion dal Sole accesa
Langue l' huom, langue 'l gregge, ed arde il Pino;
Scioglie il Cucco la Voce, e tosto intesa
Canta la Tortorella e 'l gardelino.
Zeffiro dolce Spira, mà contesa
Muove Borea improviso al Suo vicino;
E piange il Pastorel, perche sospesa
Teme fiera borasca, e 'l suo destino;

Adagio e piano - Presto e forte
Toglie alle membra lasse il Suo riposo
Il timore de' Lampi, e tuoni fieri
E de mosche, e mosconi il Stuol furioso!

Presto
Ah, che pur troppo i Suo timor Son veri
Tuona e fulmina il Ciel e grandinoso
Tronca il capo alle Spiche e a' grani alteri.

Concerto No. 3 in F major, Op. 8, RV 293, "L'autunno"

(sonnet printed in the score)

Allegro
Celebra il Vilanel con balli e Canti
Del felice raccolto il bel piacere
E del liquor de Bacco accesi tanti
Finiscono col Sonno il lor godere.

Adagio molto
Fà ch' ogn' uno tralasci e balli e canti
L' aria che temperata dà piacere,
E la Staggion ch' invita tanti e tanti
D' un dolcissimo Sonno al bel godere.

Allegro
I cacciator alla nov' alba à caccia
Con corni, Schioppi, e cani escono fuore
Fugge la belva, e Seguono la traccia;
Già Sbigottita, e lassa al gran rumore
De' Schioppi e cani, ferita minaccia
Languida di fuggir, mà oppressa muore.

Concerto No. 4 in F minor, Op. 8, RV 297, "L'inverno"

(sonnet printed in the score)

Allegro non molto
Aggiacciato tremar trà nevi algenti
Al Severo Spirar d' orrido Vento,
Correr battendo i piedi ogni momento;
E pel Soverchio gel batter i denti;

Largo
Passar al foco i di quieti e contenti
Mentre la pioggia fuor bagna ben cento

Allegro
Caminar Sopra il giaccio, e à passo lento
Per timor di cader girsene intenti;
Gir forte Sdruzziolar, cader à terra
Di nuove ir Sopra 'l giaccio e correr forte
Sin ch' il giaccio si rompe, e si disserra;
Sentir uscir dalle ferrate porte
Sirocco, Borea, e tutti i Venti in guerra
Quest' é 'l verno, mà tal, che gioja apporte.


Exhibit B: Beethoven - Pastoral Symphony (manuscript overall assessment: "Mehr Ausdruck der Empfindung als Malerei" ("Rather expressive of sensations than painting")

1.(manuscript title) Erwachen heiterer Empfindungen bei der Ankunft auf dem Lande
2. (manuscript title) Szene am Bach
3. (manuscript title) Lustiges Zusammensein der Landleute
4. (manuscript title) Gewitter, Sturm
5. (manuscript title) Hirtengesang. Frohe und dankbare Gefühle nach dem Sturm

Exhibit C: Debussy - La mer

1. (manuscript title) De l'aube à midi sur la mer
2. (manuscript title) Jeux de vagues
3. (manuscript title) Dialogue du vent et de la mer

One can twist these titles and programmes till Judgment Day; one can go against the explicit intentions of the composers and pretend that the titles and programmes mean nothing; one can be such towering musical genius as to know better than Vivaldi, Beethoven and Debussy what music is or is not, what music can or cannot do; but one can't change facts: and that all three composers believed in the expressive powers of music and used these powers to convey specific moods, feelings and emotions is a fact.

Dixi et salvavi animam meam. Over and out (for good).

[Daverz]

What emotion does a Bach fugue express?

Bach was quite expert at manipulating the emotions, e.g. St. Matthew Passion.

[Karl Henning]

(sonnet printed in the score)

If the concerti express the sonnet — why the need to print it?

If the movements of the Op.68 express the sentiments — why do the movements require headings?

[Florestan]

If the concerti express the sonnet — why the need to print it?

If the movements of the Op.68 express the sentiments — why do the movements require headings?

Too bad messer Antonio and herr Beethoven are no more with us --- they could have answered your questions. 

I do trust, though, that eventually we all (including all GMG members) meet in Heaven, where all contradictions and questions will be resolved into universal harmony. 

EDIT: "Over and out", my a$$... 

[Karl Henning]

. . . We have it in our DNA, so to speak, to associate music with emotion because since the days of the cavemen music has been used to supplement our need to deal with life changing events.  Hence, our acculturation and one reason why we associate certain kinds of music with emotions.  Other reasons have already been mentioned everything from cartoons to movies and music in popular culture, including advertisement music, is used in a manner that plays on our cultural heritage (in the West) and to call to mind some emotional connection.

Heck, I'll say it again: nobody argues that music is not used to support and suggest emotional content.  It's a question of distinguishing between suggestion and expression.

No surprise that the discussion continues to chase its own tail . . . .

[Karl Henning]

Too bad messer Antonio and herr Beethoven are no more with us --- they could have answered your questions. 

No need: I am certain that you did not need to search for the sonnet. Since the music expresses it so clearly, I expect you took the sonnet down in dictation while listening to the concerto.

[Florestan]

We have it in our DNA, so to speak, to associate music with emotion because since the days of the cavemen music has been used to supplement our need to deal with life changing events.

Great example! Now pray tell: did the cavemen know anything about minor keys being sad and major keys being joyful? what prompted them to associate this type of banging with a burial and that type of banging with a mating ritual? 

[Florestan]

No need: I am certain that you did not need to search for the sonnet. Since the music expresses it so clearly, I expect you took the sonnet down in dictation while listening to the concerto.

Your expectation exceeds my powers... my bad. 

(Jokes aside: show me anyone who associates Vivaldi's Spring with sadness and grief.)

[Opus106]

...eventually we all (including all GMG members) meet in Heaven...

You're way too optimistic!

[Florestan]

You're way too optimistic!

Not at all, it's you who are way too pessimistic!

[Opus106]

(Jokes aside: show me anyone who associates Vivaldi's Spring with sadness and grief.)

We'll have to rear at least a few hundred year-old children in solitary confinement for a few years, before we can satisfactorily answer your question.

[Opus106]

Not at all, it's you who are way too pessimistic realistic!

[Florestan]

Well, being culturally conditioned as an Eastern Orthodox Christian, I know that realism doesn't even begin to scratch the surface of reality. But hey, you should know that, too, ain't it?   

[Karl Henning]

(Jokes aside: show me anyone who associates Vivaldi's Spring with sadness and grief.)

But, that is a joke! ; )

In fact, I don't find it difficult to imagine that sadness or grief might occur to a listener to the Largo.  But I scarcely need tell you that (adopting the point for discussion) if no one associates sadness with a piece of music, it does not follow that the music expresses joy.  We of the respectful opposition continue to contend that it is a matter of suggestion and resonance, not of expression.

[Florestan]

We of the respectful opposition continue to contend that it is a matter of suggestion and resonance, not of expression.[/font]

May I ask you a blunt question, my dear friend Karl whom I respect just as much?

[Daverz]

Why is it that when examples are given of music expressing emotions there is a text being sung or a intentional program given?

My example was of an Bach fugue, an instrumental fugue, not one singing a text. 

Now wait a second.  You can't both complain that Romantic composers manipulated the emotions and then claim that music cannot expression emotions without a text or program.   

[PaulR]

I think the reason I, and possibly others, do not find music from the Romnatic period as enjoyable as that from other periods, is precisely because Romantic composers made an overt attempt to manipulate and appeal to the emotions of their audience.

What emotion does a Bach fugue express?

Baroque composers/theorists also manipulated their music to fit a certain emotion.  May not be as extreme as as Romantic music, but they certainly did pair emotions with the music with what mode/key they put their compositions in.  In the transition between the Renaissance and baroque, composers/theorists thought that certain keys/modes represented a certain affection (or emotion) like anger, fear, sadness, etc.  See the Doctrine of Affections.

[Florestan]

I think the reason I, and possibly others, do not find music from the Romnatic period as enjoyable as that from other periods, is precisely because Romantic composers made an overt attempt to manipulate and appeal to the emotions of their audience.

Now wait a second.  You can't both complain that Romantic composers manipulated the emotions and then claim that music cannot expression emotions without a text or program.   

Hah!

Daverz, thumbs up and kudos for that! Thank youuuuuuuu, Sir!

[Florestan]

Baroque composers/theorists also manipulated their music to fit a certain emotion.  May not be as extreme as as Romantic music, but they certainly did pair emotions with the music.  See the Doctrine of Affections/

Hear, hear!

[PaulR]

While true, how they did this was much more subtle and did not make the music any less absolute.  The Romantic composers took that idea and went in the extreme direction of elevating this idea  to a higher value, to the point that composers aspired to descriptive goals for beyond anything ever contemplated by composers from previous eras.. 

My point was that "absolute" music during the Baroque and Classical periods drifted during the Romantic period to more programmatic music.  This was rectified during the 20th century as programmatic music was viewed as an embarrassing detour, so much so, that Leonard Bernstein cautioned his audience to ignore the program of the Pastoral Symphony as it tended to obscure the music.

It's not subtle to say "G minor=sadness.  If you want to represent sadness, write the piece in G minor". 

Secondly, the use of the word "absolute music" to describe the music of Pre-Romantic music is incorrect.  There was no such thing. Absolute music was a reaction against programmatic music valued by the New German School (Berlioz, Liszt, Wagner, Brendel).   The concept did not exist to the composers of the classical and baroque periods.    Also:  The Pastoral isn't a programmatic symphony.  The first symphony which had a program was Berlioz's Symphony Fantastique.  So it was wise that Bernstein told listeners to ignore the program that did not exist.