The greatest art music since 1985...

[Sean]

That's a huge statement Dave    I don't know the work but just had to place it on order after such a hearty recommendation!  I like the quartets I've heard of P.M.D. so hoping this symphony will be a major find.  Should be here by the weekend. 

MD's more recent music has far more head than heart, providing some uselessly complicated tangles; maybe someone should start or resurrect an appropriate thread though.

[Sean]

Philip Grange (studied with Maxwell Davies), completed a large-scale orchestral piece entitled Eclipsing in 2004.  I attended the concert premiere commissioned by the BBC at the Bridgewater Hall, Manchester.  The BBC Philharmonic under Vassily Sinaisky.  A truly wonderful half hour of planetary twists and turns.

I know this work. Can't remember if it was a CD or a recording I made from a broadcast but I remember it as a lot more episodic than the MD symphony. As with other works people have mentioned here it really does chart the decline, but no pillow fights.

[Sean]

Brewski, James, jochanaan, Karl et al you mention many works I've explored seriously but I really do think they prove my point. These are indeed the best we have but they're not great music.

Have a think about 1885-1913 and its colossal achievements, many indeed standing near the heart of our civilization and what it'll be remembered for, that your pitiful offerings have to compare with. Here's a conservative list I've put together.

Mahler
Faure
Debussy
Puccini
Janacek
Scriabin
Rimsky-Korsakov
Massenet
Mussorgsky
Saint-Saens
Bruch
Sibelius
Sullivan
J.Strauss

Late Brahms
Late Dvorak
Late Bruckner
Late Verdi
Late Tchaikovsky
Late Grieg

Mid Elgar
Mid Delius
Mid Holst
Mid Ravel

Early Strauss
Early Schoenberg
Early Vaughan Williams
Early Bartok
Early Stravinsky
Early Bax

What these figures stand for is so titanic and enormous, while we're scratching around with obscure bits of aural fluff and academia, there is no beginning to deny what I'm saying here.

Best, Sean

[jochanaan]

But I do begin to deny it, Sean.  Whatever you may say about late Messiaen, Carter or Glass, they've written a lot of stuff that's much deeper than "aural fluff."

[some guy]

What these figures stand for is so titanic and enormous, while we're scratching around with obscure bits of aural fluff and academia, there is no beginning to deny what I'm saying here.

This reminds me of something.

Boccherini, yeah. That's the guy that was so titanic and enormous, while Mozart was scratching around.

Then a few years later, Mozart and Haydn were titanic and enormous, while Beethoven was scratching around.

Then it was Berlioz' turn. Beethoven was so titanic and enormous, et cetera.

Remember when Verdi and Wagner were titanic and enormous while pikers like Mahler were scratching around? Yeah. That's the good stuff.

Be nice if the "hell in a handbasket" brigade could come up with a new complaint. One that would actually last past a generation or two. How, when an idea has been shown to be ludicrous over and over again, does it still have that certain charm for some people?

For certain minds, the present always looks paltry next to the titanic and enormous achievements of the past. Which were, when they were present, seen by that type of mind as paltry next to the titanic and enormous achievements of that present's past.

I guess the titanic and enormous are too big too see from up close, eh? Let some time pass. Get some distance from them. Then, suddenly, "Hey, look!! Those trifling bits of aural fluff are titanic and enormous."

Go figure.

[AnthonyAthletic]

I know this work. Can't remember if it was a CD or a recording I made from a broadcast but I remember it as a lot more episodic than the MD symphony. As with other works people have mentioned here it really does chart the decline, but no pillow fights.

Probably a recording you made Sean.  The concert IIRC was on a Thursday evening and BBC Radio 3 broadcast it 'as was' Grange/Mozart/Mahler the following Saturday.  I too recorded it on good old cassette which long since perished.  Didn't have software at the time to rip to cd from tape.

[North Star]

Against my better judgement ..

The 2nd half of the 20th century was a period of renewal ("Everything must change so that everything can remain the same") .. here is a listing of some of the composers active in the 2nd half, a few big beasts lurking within .. but as history shows us repeatedly, we always looks back as we move forward ,, and surely at the very least a small canon of fabulous (even essential) works can be tallied up that define this era/period of classical music's history.

Igor Stravinsky 1882 -1971
Aaron Copland 1900–1990
Joaquín Rodrigo 1901–1999
William Walton 1902–1983
Maurice Duruflé 1902–1983
Luigi Dallapiccola 1904–1975
Karl Amadeus Hartmann 1905–1963
Giacinto Scelsi 1905–1988
Michael Tippett 1905–1998
Elisabeth Lutyens 1906–1983
Dmitri Shostakovich 1906–1975
Elizabeth Maconchy 1907–1990
Elliott Carter 1908–2012
Olivier Messiaen 1908–1992
Grażyna Bacewicz 1909–1967
Samuel Barber 1910–1981
John Cage 1912–1992
Conlon Nancarrow 1912–1997
Benjamin Britten 1913–1976
Witold Lutosławski 1913–1994
Henri Dutilleux 1916–
Leonard Bernstein 1918–1990
Malcolm Arnold 1921–2006
Iannis Xenakis 1922–2001
György Ligeti 1923–2006
Luigi Nono 1924–1990
Luciano Berio 1925–2003
Pierre Boulez 1925–
Morton Feldman 1926–1987
Hans Werner Henze 1926–2012
György Kurtág 1926–
Franco Donatoni 1927-2000
Einojuhani Rautavaara 1928–
Karlheinz Stockhausen 1928–2007
Toru Takemitsu 1930–1996
Sofia Gubaidulina 1931–
Mauricio Kagel 1931–2008
Henryk Górecki 1933–2010
Krzysztof Penderecki 1933–
Harrison Birtwistle 1934–
Peter Maxwell Davies 1934–
Alfred Schnittke 1934–1998
Nicholas Maw 1935–2009
Arvo Pärt 1935–
Helmut Lachenmann 1935–
Steve Reich 1936–
Philip Glass 1937–
Louis Andriessen 1939–
Jonathan Harvey 1939–2012
Michael Nyman 1944–
John Tavener 1944–
York Höller 1944-
Peter Lieberson 1944-2011
John Adams 1947–
Tristan Murail 1947–
Poul Ruders 1949–
Alejandro Viñao 1951-
Wolfgang Rihm 1952–
Kaija Saariaho 1952–
Oliver Knussen 1952–
Judith Weir 1954–
Magnus Lindberg 1958–
Esa-Pekka Salonen 1958-
James MacMillan 1959–
Sebastian Currier 1959-
George Benjamin 1960–
Mark-Anthony Turnage 1960–
Michael Torke 1961–
Unsuk Chin 1961-
Brett Dean 1961-
Julian Anderson 1967-
Thomas Adès 1971–
Matthias Pintscher 1971-

I have some bad news for you, James.

[CaughtintheGaze]

Multiple pages... Not a troll's folly at all.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Brewski, James, jochanaan, Karl et al you mention many works I've explored seriously....

No you haven't....

[jochanaan]

Two musicians were walking in the Alps.  One of them complained about the new generation of musicians.  As they crossed a bridge, the other turned, pointed to the ripples in the water below them, and asked, "Which is the last?"

The musicians: Johannes Brahms and Gustav Mahler.

[bhodges]

Most of the time there is little point engaging with them; occasionally this claim is made by someone who really wishes to be shown what they are missing.  But in this case, I agree with James, this thread is a troll's folly.

Yes, I agree, since it's apparent that the original poster has already decided the outcome of any "discussion."

Two musicians were walking in the Alps.  One of them complained about the new generation of musicians.  As they crossed a bridge, the other turned, pointed to the ripples in the water below them, and asked, "Which is the last?"

The musicians: Johannes Brahms and Gustav Mahler.

Thanks, that's a great snapshot - never heard it before - and quite makes the point. 

--Bruce

[Karl Henning]

Thanks, that's a great snapshot - never heard it before - and quite makes the point. 

And: there's no question who was who in the exchange 

[jut1972]

When I think about the importance of taking time to forming an informed view I always think of the cover of NME which proclaimed the Boo Radleys as the new Beatles.

[Karl Henning]

Well, and weren't they?  0:)

[Sean]

But I do begin to deny it, Sean.  Whatever you may say about late Messiaen, Carter or Glass, they've written a lot of stuff that's much deeper than "aural fluff."

Not since the mid-80s, not a lot anyway.

[Sean]

some guy, that's a good reply.

One small thing however. The titanic and enormous flourished a hundred years ago, not today.

Face it, it's over.

Boccherini, yeah. That's the guy that was so titanic and enormous, while Mozart was scratching around.

Then a few years later, Mozart and Haydn were titanic and enormous, while Beethoven was scratching around.

Then it was Berlioz' turn. Beethoven was so titanic and enormous, et cetera.

Remember when Verdi and Wagner were titanic and enormous while pikers like Mahler were scratching around? Yeah. That's the good stuff.

[Sean]

James, your list gets worse and worse as it progresses; there are two names on it I don't know music by and to claim that the aesthetic output of these characters in any possible way compares with those of a century before is pure fantasy.

[Sean]

James

No, I'm serious. Very. I'm into controversy but don't do trolling.

sanantonio

No, I doubt very much that anyone knows more modern music than me.

All are welcome to my 4000 hour list of works I've got to know through five or more listenings-

https://www.box.com/s/qs6irdaz1jt63j5poxl5

And my 1200 composer list from that-

https://www.box.com/s/wua9v7scf6xl8hf4xawe

[Sean]

Anthony

Cheers!

[Sean]

A bit off-topic but me a couple of days ago, second right; the guy to my left is also British, we were taking out girls from the supermarket for the Chinese national Dragon Boat festival, a mythical celebration of masculine energy given by the summer solstice...