Your favorite opera villain/anti-villain

[Jaakko Keskinen]

After I reheard Don Carlos last night, I think a good challenger for Paolo among Verdi villains would be Philip. His outstanding aria at the beginning of act 4 (or 3 in italian version) is one of the most moving psychologically convincing pieces of music I have ever heard. Once again, maestro Verdi shows his capability of showing sympathy for everyone in his music. That is quite possibly the best bass aria Verdi ever wrote.

[Karl Henning]

Claggart

[Cato]

I have avoided this topic... much too difficult to choose!

Alberich, Hagen, Clythemnestra, sure!

How about:

Mephistopheles in Busoni's Doctor Faust.

Paul Hindemith's Cardillac murders people who buy his artistic jewelry! 

Would Arnold Schoenberg's Aron be considered a villain?  Or just a practical politician? 

[(poco) Sforzando]

Some of the aforementioned seem to me far too ambiguous to be called villains - Don Giovanni, Boris Godunov among them.

Just to add a new candidate, the Nurse in Die Frau ohne Schatten.

[kishnevi]

After I reheard Don Carlos last night, I think a good challenger for Paolo among Verdi villains would be Philip. His outstanding aria at the beginning of act 4 (or 3 in italian version) is one of the most moving psychologically convincing pieces of music I have ever heard. Once again, maestro Verdi shows his capability of showing sympathy for everyone in his music. That is quite possibly the best bass aria Verdi ever wrote.

Verdi did such a good job, that I've never even thought of Philip as being a villain; the Grand Inquisitor fills that spot in my internal cast of characters.

[Tsaraslondon]

After I reheard Don Carlos last night, I think a good challenger for Paolo among Verdi villains would be Philip. His outstanding aria at the beginning of act 4 (or 3 in italian version) is one of the most moving psychologically convincing pieces of music I have ever heard. Once again, maestro Verdi shows his capability of showing sympathy for everyone in his music. That is quite possibly the best bass aria Verdi ever wrote.

But is Philip really a villain? I'd argue that the real villain of the piece is the Grand Inquisitor, and with him the whole of the Catholic Church. Verdi's anti-clericalism was never so much in evidence as it is here.

[Jaakko Keskinen]

Some of the aforementioned seem to me far too ambiguous to be called villains - Don Giovanni

Well, Don Giovanni does attempt to rape Donna Anna and Zerlina, is faithless to Donna Elvira, kills Commendatore and when things get too dangerous tries to put the blame on Leporello. I'd say he qualifies as a villain, even though a very charismatic and affable one.

[jochanaan]

Opera is unfortunately a blind spot for me. I have only seen Boris Godunov (a few times), Khovanshchina, Billy Bud and the Barber of Seville (in Leningrad - as it was then called) + The Pilgrim's Progress by Vaughan Williams...

Except for Il Barbiere, none of that is light listening or anywhere near Classical Music's Greatest Hits! You're not blind by anyone's standards!

[knight66]

I cannot see Verdi's Philip as a villain at all. His son is a loony loose cannon who can't be trusted politically. He agonises over how to keep the state safe. In one production I saw, instead of it being a confrontation with the Grand Inquisitor, Philip wanted his advice and treated him with respect and great affection. It was a successful reading of the scene, made Philip more understandable in his continuing agonies.

Mike

[Tsaraslondon]

I cannot see Verdi's Philip as a villain at all. His son is a loony loose cannon who can't be trusted politically.

Mike

I agree with you about Philip. Not sure about your assessment of Carlo though. Misunderstood, certainly, but is it any wonder he's a loose canon, considering how his father treats him? He sees how much his father admires his friend Posa, to whom he is always unfavourably compared.  Having promised Elisabeth to Carlo, Philip then decides to marry her himself, without a second thought as to the effect this might have on his son. Is it any wonder he goes to such great lengths just to be noticed?  I have a great deal of sympathy for Carlo, who is, I think, one of Verdi's most interesting and psychologically complex tenor roles.

Not that any of this makes Philip a villain. Also a complex character, he is a weak ruler, at the mercy of the church. In fact Posa and Elisabeth are the only characters in the opera with any real moral fibre. Of course, it is this very psychological complexity that makes Don Carlos such a great opera, whatever its faults of construction. A flawed masterpiece, no doubt, but still a masterpiece.

[knight66]

Yes, I accept all of that and really, I need to distinguish between the real prince on which the story is based and Verdi's version, which you have outlined.

Mike

[Jaakko Keskinen]

A flawed masterpiece, no doubt, but still a masterpiece.

I have heard every critic noticing the historical inaccuracy and many absurdities of the plot but for me there is only three things that annoy me in this opera, otherwise it's perfect. I don't mind the impossibility of a character like Posa in Philip II:'s Spain, not that Philip of the opera is much more benevolent than the real one, not even the abrupt ending. I dislike that Queen's banished lady-in waiting doesn't have a single line, (yet we're supposed to feel for her) I dislike the heavenly voice at the end of auto da-fe scene (only dramatically, musically it is perfect) and above of everything else I dislike how Eboli comes with a zero evidence into conclusion that Carlos is in love with her. I find it very hard not to laugh at Eboli in that part and when I heard Don Carlos last thursday the entire opera house roared in laughter. Verdi himself (according to book Verdi with a vengeance) thought of Eboli as a slut.

[knight66]

I don't think the historical inacuracy matters at all, we don't really criticise Shakespeare when he bends history to dramatic purposes. The end of the opera is a very oddly weak moment.

Mike

[Wendell_E]

I dislike that Queen's banished lady-in waiting doesn't have a single line, (yet we're supposed to feel for her)

I think the we, and the courtiers, are supposed to feel more for the Queen, than for her lady-in-waiting.  As the chorus sings:  "Ah! Pour la Reine quelle offense!"  And the comments that Philippe and the chorus sing during Elizabeth's aria are about the Queen, not the Countess of Aremberg.  Even Elizabeth, while comforting the Countess, makes it at least as much about Elizabeth herself:

"Conceal well this insult
that covers me with shame.
Do not tell of my suffering,
the tears I shed."

I dislike the heavenly voice at the end of auto da-fe scene (only dramatically, musically it is perfect)

I like it.  Though the Inquisitors think they are doing heaven's will, the voice says "Not!".

I dislike how Eboli comes with a zero evidence into conclusion that Carlos is in love with her.

Really?  Happens all the time!

[Jaakko Keskinen]

I like it.  Though the Inquisitors think they are doing heaven's will, the voice says "Not!".

I think it's too preaching. We don't really need the voice to tell us that burning "heretics" is wrong. To most of us, it's self-explanatory.

[kishnevi]

I think it's too preaching. We don't really need the voice to tell us that burning "heretics" is wrong. To most of us, it's self-explanatory.

To us it's self-explanatory.  Unfortunately, there are still plenty of people in the world who think of it as a good thing... even in the West, especially if you include in that category those who merely want to limit the fires to non physical equivalents.

And there are apparently loads of Catholics who refuse to accept the Church's role in the history of suppressing dissent.  I've even had Catholics try to make the claim that the Church has always been a bastion of religious liberty, even at the height of the heresy hunting centuries.

[Tsaraslondon]

I like it.  Though the Inquisitors think they are doing heaven's will, the voice says "Not!".

The injunction in the score is that The Voice from Heaven should be "very far off". Unconscious irony, do you think?

[(poco) Sforzando]

treated him with respect and great affection.

"Dunque il trono piegar dovrà sempre all'altare!" Respect and affection indeed.

[(poco) Sforzando]

even though a very charismatic and affable one.

You're making my case.

[knight66]

"Dunque il trono piegar dovrà sempre all'altare!" Respect and affection indeed.

I did say it was the slant of the production and that phrase can be sung in a gently resigned way, or as an angry accusation.

Mike