Vaughan Williams's Veranda

[vandermolen]

Not sure if I can get onboard with this new Manze recording considering the disappointment that was his first RVW release of Symphonies 2 & 8. Also the idea of a tenor singing the wordless vocal part in the last movement of A Pastoral Symphony doesn't sit well with me, especially when a woman's voice just feels right to me and represents almost this angelic voice bursting through the clouds. Also, Manze's conducting leaves much to be desired as well. He's accurate and technically proficient in getting crystal clear clarity from an orchestra, but RVW's music isn't about this at all but about passion and trying to convey a more emotional message. Anyway, this is all IMHO.

John - I don't disagree especially about the older recording which nearly went to the charity shop. However I liked 'A Pastoral Symphony' and thought the tenor soloist worked well in the context of World War One and the slaughter on the Somme but just IMHO too. Nos 5,6 and 9 will be the real test as far as I'm concerned.

[Mirror Image]

John - I don't disagree especially about the older recording which nearly went to the charity shop. However I liked 'A Pastoral Symphony' and thought the tenor soloist worked well in the context of World War One and the slaughter on the Somme but just IMHO too. Nos 5,6 and 9 will be the real test as far as I'm concerned.

I suppose given all of the excellent performances I've heard of the Pastoral, I'm a bit leery of Manze considering my previous experience with his conducting.

[vandermolen]

I suppose given all of the excellent performances I've heard of the Pastoral, I'm a bit leery of Manze considering my previous experience with his conducting.

I understand. Better to stick with the Previn or Elder I think. 

[Mirror Image]

I understand. Better to stick with the Previn or Elder I think. 

Yes to Previn and Elder, but I do like Boult's later EMI performance, too.

[vandermolen]

Yes to Previn and Elder, but I do like Boult's later EMI performance, too.

Oh yes and his earlier one on Decca which I think might have been the first ever recording of the work.

[Oates]

It is clearly time for another icy blast of RVW's film score via Dutton.

https://www.duttonvocalion.co.uk/proddetail.php?prod=CDLX7340

Rumon Gamba excavated much of this for Chandos in 2002 (41m 12s worth across 18 cues). I don't know how much extra music this offers but it has 41 cues.

[vandermolen]

It is clearly time for another icy blast of RVW's film score via Dutton.

https://www.duttonvocalion.co.uk/proddetail.php?prod=CDLX7340

Rumon Gamba excavated much of this for Chandos in 2002 (41m 12s worth across 18 cues). I don't know how much extra music this offers but it has 41 cues.

That's what I thought although it hasn't stopped me ordering it. 

[Mirror Image]

That's what I thought although it hasn't stopped me ordering it. 

Let me know what you think, Jeffrey. For some reason, I haven't had too much interest in RVW's film music.

[vandermolen]

Will do John. IMHO the best single disc collection of VW's film music is the one on Naxos which was originally on Marco Polo.

[Mirror Image]

Will do John. IMHO the best single disc collection of VW's film music is the one on Naxos which was originally on Marco Polo.

I'll have to check that one out. Thanks, Jeffrey.

[cilgwyn]

That's what I thought although it hasn't stopped me ordering it. 

You've got to fight the urge,vandermolen. Fight it on the websites,fight it at the keyboard,fight it at the checkout,fight it with growing confidence and never.....ever.......surrender your payment details,however tempting that nice,shiny looking cd might be!!

[Oates]

Atmospheric it may be but this sleeve doesn't depict the Terra Nova expedition that is the subject of the film and music. I think it may be the 1901 Discovery expedition.

[Oates]

Andrew Manze's cycle of RVW symphonies was hailed as the "definitive interpretation of our times" (or something similar) by our old friend / adversary Simon Heffer in last Saturday's Telegraph. He was really praising these recordings to the skies. I haven't heard any yet and previous comments in this thread have made me a bit wary.

I'm just not sure how far I trust Heffer's opinions - on the one hand his Telegraph column tends to praise aspects of British culture that I also find interesting (but not usually revelatory) as he fights the corner for less celebrated or neglected works of art, but on the other hand (knowing his general views about politics, people and the state of the world) I'm not comfortable about concurring with someone with whom I would disagree so vehemently.   

[PerfectWagnerite]

Andrew Manze's cycle of RVW symphonies was hailed as the "definitive interpretation of our times" (or something similar) by our old friend / adversary Simon Heffer in last Saturday's Telegraph. He was really praising these recordings to the skies. I haven't heard any yet and previous comments in this thread have made me a bit wary.

I'm just not sure how far I trust Heffer's opinions - on the one hand his Telegraph column tends to praise aspects of British culture that I also find interesting (but not usually revelatory) as he fights the corner for less celebrated or neglected works of art, but on the other hand (knowing his general views about politics, people and the state of the world) I'm not comfortable about concurring with someone with whom I would disagree so vehemently.   

The Manze/VWV symphony videos are all on Youtube. I watched some of them. They are ok, I wouldn't say revelatory in any way. I don't think he really has any concrete musical ideas per say but they are well-played and well presented.

[Mirror Image]

Andrew Manze's cycle of RVW symphonies was hailed as the "definitive interpretation of our times" (or something similar) by our old friend / adversary Simon Heffer in last Saturday's Telegraph. He was really praising these recordings to the skies. I haven't heard any yet and previous comments in this thread have made me a bit wary.

I'm just not sure how far I trust Heffer's opinions - on the one hand his Telegraph column tends to praise aspects of British culture that I also find interesting (but not usually revelatory) as he fights the corner for less celebrated or neglected works of art, but on the other hand (knowing his general views about politics, people and the state of the world) I'm not comfortable about concurring with someone with whom I would disagree so vehemently.   

It's funny you mention this because I have an opposite impression of the Manze cycle than Simon Heffer. I wrote a review of the first recording of the series on Amazon and here's what I wrote:

Andrew Manze has been slowly establishing himself as a conductor of more later music (i. e. 20th Century) as he comes from an early music background. He has performed Vaughan Williams many times (incl. a concert of "Symphonies Nos. 4-6" at the BBC Proms if I remember correctly). This recording (on Onyx) is the first in a projected cycle of Vaughan Williams' symphonies. Upon listening to this recording twice now, my reaction to the music-making is rather underwhelming in general. I think Manze has a good understanding of the music and how to make it flow, but what I'm missing is a more dramatic narrative than what's on display here. Of course, Manze has some stiff competition in both of these symphonies (and all the rest once they're released). How does Manze stack up against my favorites like Boult, Thomson, Previn, and Handley? He doesn't. It's that simple. The climaxes aren't too impressive and, while I did mention the positive of the music flowing at nice pace, Manze seems to undermine in the process some of the more lyrical moments where coaxing more emotion from the orchestra would have been welcomed. In "A London Symphony," I don't feel like I'm experiencing the city at all. I'm feeling the experience as a tourist and not someone who actually lives there. He seems so hesitant and cautious. I know he probably doesn't want to make any mistakes from a technical perspective, but a more unhinged approach would have been much more pleasing to hear. "Symphony No. 8" suffers from the same kind of reluctant approach as "A London Symphony." Some consider "Symphony No. 8" to be a puzzling work and, indeed, it doesn't give up it's secrets so easily, but, for me, along with the 3rd, 5th, 6th, it's one of his finest symphonies. The orchestration in itself is a feast for the ears, but under Manze's baton I don't feel quite the same magic as I felt before in the afore mentioned conductors. To end this rambling review, I'm not going to be buying any more of Manze's Vaughan Williams recordings and I'm going to stick to my favorites as they display more than just an understanding of the technical side of the music. In summary, more emotion Mr. Manze, more emotion!

[vandermolen]

You've got to fight the urge,vandermolen. Fight it on the websites,fight it at the keyboard,fight it at the checkout,fight it with growing confidence and never.....ever.......surrender your payment details,however tempting that nice,shiny looking cd might be!!

Too late:

'Once more unto the Amazon shopping basket dear friends, once more...'

[vandermolen]

Atmospheric it may be but this sleeve doesn't depict the Terra Nova expedition that is the subject of the film and music. I think it may be the 1901 Discovery expedition.

Yes, it's definitely not the Terra Nova expedition. Also the presence of other ships makes me doubt if it is the Discovery one or Shackleton's 'Endurance' expedition when the ship got crushed in the ice. There's the tragic Franklin expedition too.

[vandermolen]

Andrew Manze's cycle of RVW symphonies was hailed as the "definitive interpretation of our times" (or something similar) by our old friend / adversary Simon Heffer in last Saturday's Telegraph. He was really praising these recordings to the skies. I haven't heard any yet and previous comments in this thread have made me a bit wary.

I'm just not sure how far I trust Heffer's opinions - on the one hand his Telegraph column tends to praise aspects of British culture that I also find interesting (but not usually revelatory) as he fights the corner for less celebrated or neglected works of art, but on the other hand (knowing his general views about politics, people and the state of the world) I'm not comfortable about concurring with someone with whom I would disagree so vehemently.   

So far I have enjoyed 'A Pastoral Symphony' with its unusual tenor soloist but the performances of symphonies 2,8 and 4 are nothing special IMHO although enjoyable enough. I don't think they displace Boult's (EMI/Warner or historical Decca) as the definitive cycle. Others think that Previn's is the best overall cycle. I prefer most of the performances by Hickox and Thomson too and Haitink ranks highly with the best No.1.

[PerfectWagnerite]

So far I have enjoyed 'A Pastoral Symphony' with its unusual tenor soloist but the performances of symphonies 2,8 and 4 are nothing special IMHO although enjoyable enough. I don't think they displace Boult's (EMI/Warner or historical Decca) as the definitive cycle. Others think that Previn's is the best overall cycle. I prefer most of the performances by Hickox and Thomson too and Haitink ranks highly with the best No.1.

I really like Andre Previn's cycle, every performance is a knockout. The only quibble I have is some bloke yapping away between mvts in the Sinfonia Antarctica. I would say together with Slatkin they are my favorite. I never liked Thomson, Haitink or Boult (not sure which one I have exactly).

[Oates]

Too late:

'Once more unto the Amazon shopping basket dear friends, once more...'

Well, I've ordered it as well, despite the real risk that there will be only about 1m 21s of music that is "previously unheard"! It might make up for the blu-ray of Scott of The Antarctic from last year which had a lovely picture but garbled sound, despite Andrew Davis singing its praises in the extras. Trust the latest technology to take the one film where the soundtrack is critically important and render it worse that the previous DVD release.