Vaughan Williams's Veranda

[Maestro267]

Ah yes, I do own that Cambridge book, but it seems that it's short on information about the actual music itself as you mention. As far as I'm concerned, his symphonies are his most important contribution to music (not that I don't think his other music isn't important of course) and it would be nice to have a study on each individual symphony.

This might be the sort of thing you're after.

https://www.amazon.com/Vaughan-Williams-Symphonies-music-guides/dp/0295952334/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1513613533&sr=1-2&keywords=vaughan+williams+symphonies

I have a copy of this (with a whole bunch of others in the same series) and it goes into a decent amount of detail on each symphony.

[kishnevi]

I read here that the sax solo in the Scherzo subtly quotes Steven Foster's Swanee River (the apparent backstory is fascinating): http://americansymphony.org/ralph-vaughan-williams-symphony-no-6/

Of course, that's it...my mind simply pitched onto the wrong piece of music.
Thank you.

[Mirror Image]

This might be the sort of thing you're after.

https://www.amazon.com/Vaughan-Williams-Symphonies-music-guides/dp/0295952334/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1513613533&sr=1-2&keywords=vaughan+williams+symphonies

I have a copy of this (with a whole bunch of others in the same series) and it goes into a decent amount of detail on each symphony.

Cool, thanks, Maestro.

[vandermolen]

I'm not sure about a Gershwin quote, but he wrote that particular part in memory of an English jazz musician who was killed during a Nazi air raid (?). I put the question mark, because I may very well be misremembering. Vandermolen probably knows better than I.

VW letter to Fritz Hart (8th August 1943)

'....I've been hearing some American music lately. I admired Copland but not Piston - also I loved Gershwin's Pfte Concerto - just a series of intriguing tunes - but why not?'

(Letters of Ralph Vaughan Williams 1895-1958 Ed. Hugh Cobbe 2008)

[vandermolen]

This might be the sort of thing you're after.

https://www.amazon.com/Vaughan-Williams-Symphonies-music-guides/dp/0295952334/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1513613533&sr=1-2&keywords=vaughan+williams+symphonies

I have a copy of this (with a whole bunch of others in the same series) and it goes into a decent amount of detail on each symphony.

That is an excellent book. Great photo of VW and his favourite cat 'Foxy' too.

[vandermolen]

Of course, that's it...my mind simply pitched onto the wrong piece of music.
Thank you.

I think that 'Swanee River' is very evident in that part of the scherzo.

[vandermolen]

Cross-posted from the 'Purchases' thread:

Does anyone own this book? I bought it with hopes of some deeper discussion on works like Flos campi, Symphonies Nos. 4-6, and Job.

I have the paperback version. It was a companion to Ursula's biography, which I received by mistake as a 17/18 year old when I thought I'd ordered the Illustrated biography with all the photos  . Still, I kept it and read both books. The Ursula book read a bit like VW's desk diary. Far more significant material about VW's life has come out in recent years. It was a bit of a 'court biography' although I still enjoyed it. Michael Kennedy was a young friend of VW's and he only died comparatively recently. His musical biography is very good with some personal letters at the back. It was good though when alternatives to Kennedy's book started to appear, although it remains invaluable for an insight into his compositions and does not shy away from the reaction against Vaughan Williams's music in the mid 1950s.

[Mirror Image]

I have the paperback version. It was a companion to Ursula's biography, which I received by mistake as a 17/18 year old when I thought I'd ordered the Illustrated biography with all the photos  . Still, I kept it and read both books. The Ursula book read a bit like VW's desk diary. Far more significant material about VW's life has come out in recent years. It was a bit of a 'court biography' although I still enjoyed it. Michael Kennedy was a young friend of VW's and he only died comparatively recently. His musical biography is very good with some personal letters at the back. It was good though when alternatives to Kennedy's book started to appear, although it remains invaluable for an insight into his compositions and does not shy away from the reaction against Vaughan Williams's music in the mid 1950s.

Thanks, Jeffrey. I look forward to that Kennedy book.

This book looks rather enticing but that price tag is definitely keeping me away:

[vandermolen]

Thanks, Jeffrey. I look forward to that Kennedy book.

This book looks rather enticing but that price tag is definitely keeping me away:

I think that just lists all his works John, although an invaluable reference work. Great cover photo though!

[Mirror Image]

I think that just lists all his works John, although an invaluable reference work. Great cover photo though!

Ah yes and, again, too expensive!

[Baron Scarpia]

Oh my lord. There are no words that can describe this. A London Symphony, Barbirolli, Halle.

[asin]B0000241EM[/asin]

The mastery that Barbirolli exhibits in the fist movement is utterly overwhelming to me. The attention to detail, and the majestic sweep of it. It is indescribable. In the second movement, the great climactic passage that comes roughly 2/3 of the way is awe inspiring. Just waterfalls of music coming down. One can regret that in 1967 the engineering available couldn't fully do justice to such a performance, and the more than 20 year old remastering is excessively bright and probably left some subtlety behind on the tape, but it is good enough to evoke what took place in that room, in front of those microphones.

[vandermolen]

Oh my lord. There are no words that can describe this. A London Symphony, Barbirolli, Halle.

[asin]B0000241EM[/asin]

The mastery that Barbirolli exhibits in the fist movement is utterly overwhelming to me. The attention to detail, and the majestic sweep of it. It is indescribable. In the second movement, the great climactic passage that comes roughly 2/3 of the way is awe inspiring. Just waterfalls of music coming down. One can regret that in 1967 the engineering available couldn't fully do justice to such a performance, and the more than 20 year old remastering is excessively bright and probably left some subtlety behind on the tape, but it is good enough to evoke what took place in that room, in front of those microphones.

I told you it was good!

VW told Barbirolli that 'A London Symphony' was his favourite of his own symphonies (at least his first eight as he told him before he had composed No.9).

BBC Music Magazine (Christmas issue) reviews three VW CDs including the complete 'Scott of the Antarctic' film music (excellent!) and the Brabbins 1920 London Symphony as well as the Andrew Davis 'Sinfonia Antartica/Concerto for Two Pianos CD. Of the Brabbins 1920 London Symphony the reviewer writes:

'In the 1920 version the serene polyphonic writing for strings in the first movement's introduction is mirrored by a similar balancing passage in the finale's epilogue. Fine as this is, its omission in the final 1933 version makes the epilogue's process of dissolution more concise, and therefore more striking. The post-1920 removal of two superb linking passages in the slow movement is much harder to understand - especially the second of these, with its solo horn, cor anglais, clarinet, and mysteriously dissonant accompanying tremolo strings.'

Thought this was interesting and I see his point about the mirroring of the 'serene polyphonic writing' at the end of the work. However, I'd much rather it was still there and agree with Michael Kennedy whom I seem to recall wrote that the extended cut at the end ushered in the epilogue too abruptly.

'

[Biffo]

This might be the sort of thing you're after.

https://www.amazon.com/Vaughan-Williams-Symphonies-music-guides/dp/0295952334/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1513613533&sr=1-2&keywords=vaughan+williams+symphonies

I have a copy of this (with a whole bunch of others in the same series) and it goes into a decent amount of detail on each symphony.

I have ordered a secondhand copy of this book from Amazon marketplace, cost 1p (+ 2.86 P&P). Many thanks to Maestro267 and Roasted Swan for mentioning it.

[vandermolen]

I have ordered a secondhand copy of this book from Amazon marketplace, cost 1p (+ 2.86 P&P). Many thanks to Maestro267 and Roasted Swan for mentioning it.

It's a very good book and that is great value. It's often much more expensive!

[kyjo]

I find it strange that, considering how well-served Vaughan Williams is on disc, his music seems to be so rarely programmed in the US (it's a similar situation with, say, Nielsen). In the 10 or so years that I've been attending Pittsburgh Symphony concerts, I can't ever remember them programming a single RVW work, not even the popular The Lark Ascending or Tallis Fantasia. I'd love to see a live performance of one of his symphonies (particularly the 2nd or 6th) but it seems like I may need to travel overseas for that Have other American members had any luck catching a live performance of a major RVW work on our side of the pond?

[Mirror Image]

I find it strange that, considering how well-served Vaughan Williams is on disc, his music seems to be so rarely programmed in the US (it's a similar situation with, say, Nielsen). In the 10 or so years that I've been attending Pittsburgh Symphony concerts, I can't ever remember them programming a single RVW work, not even the popular The Lark Ascending or Tallis Fantasia. I'd love to see a live performance of one of his symphonies (particularly the 2nd or 6th) but it seems like I may need to travel overseas for that Have other American members had any luck catching a live performance of a major RVW work on our side of the pond?

Ummm...we've got our own problems in the States! You can't even hear Copland, Barber, Schuman, Barber, Ives, Ruggles, etc. If you do hear Copland, it's the usual suspects like Appalachian Spring or Fanfare for the Common Man. God forbid a major US orchestra perform Connotations or Symphonic Ode!

[Biffo]

I find it strange that, considering how well-served Vaughan Williams is on disc, his music seems to be so rarely programmed in the US (it's a similar situation with, say, Nielsen). In the 10 or so years that I've been attending Pittsburgh Symphony concerts, I can't ever remember them programming a single RVW work, not even the popular The Lark Ascending or Tallis Fantasia. I'd love to see a live performance of one of his symphonies (particularly the 2nd or 6th) but it seems like I may need to travel overseas for that Have other American members had any luck catching a live performance of a major RVW work on our side of the pond?

In past years the 4th Symphony seemed to be popular with recordings by Bernstein/NYPO (plus 3 shorter works) and Stokowski/NYPO, the latter is coupled with No 6 from Mitropoulos. Ormandy recorded the Tallis Fantasia and a couple of shorter works. Of more recent recordings I can only think of Robert Spano and the Atlanta Symphony Orchestra - the Sea Symphony, Fourth Symphony & Dona nobis pacem, 5th Symphony & Tallis Fantasia. Presumably these works got public performances before recording.

[kyjo]

Ummm...we've got our own problems in the States! You can't even hear Copland, Barber, Schuman, Barber, Ives, Ruggles, etc. If you do hear Copland, it's the usual suspects like Appalachian Spring or Fanfare for the Common Man. God forbid a major US orchestra perform Connotations or Symphonic Ode!

True. It seems that American and British music suffers the most from neglect by American orchestral programming these days. As far as British music goes, the only works that seem to have a firm hold in our repertoire are Elgar's Enigma Variations and Cello Concerto, Holst's The Planets, RVW's The Lark Ascending, Walton's Viola Concerto, and Britten's Young Person's Guide. I consider it a rare event that the Pittsburgh Symphony is playing Elgar's 1st later this season - I am greatly looking forward to that.

[Mirror Image]

True. It seems that American and British music suffers the most from neglect by American orchestral programming these days. As far as British music goes, the only works that seem to have a firm hold in our repertoire are Elgar's Enigma Variations and Cello Concerto, Holst's The Planets, RVW's The Lark Ascending, Walton's Viola Concerto, and Britten's Young Person's Guide. I consider it a rare event that the Pittsburgh Symphony is playing Elgar's 1st later this season - I am greatly looking forward to that.

Walton's Viola Concerto? Really? I've never seen this on a major US orchestra's concert schedule. I'm not saying that it hasn't happened of course, but this seems to be a work we would actually be least likely to hear. As for the other mentioned works, that's a very probable list. I might add RVW's Tallis Fantasia to the list, though.

[vandermolen]

In past years the 4th Symphony seemed to be popular with recordings by Bernstein/NYPO (plus 3 shorter works) and Stokowski/NYPO, the latter is coupled with No 6 from Mitropoulos. Ormandy recorded the Tallis Fantasia and a couple of shorter works. Of more recent recordings I can only think of Robert Spano and the Atlanta Symphony Orchestra - the Sea Symphony, Fourth Symphony & Dona nobis pacem, 5th Symphony & Tallis Fantasia. Presumably these works got public performances before recording.

I'd love to hear a recording of Mitropoulos doing No.6 but I think it may be the other way round with Stokowski doing No.6 and Mitropoulos in No.4.