Author Topic: Vaughan Williams's Veranda  (Read 677168 times)

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Online vandermolen

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4720 on: October 12, 2020, 08:56:42 AM »
Ah, crumbs!  I missed it.  Will have to play some of his music today and send 'Happy Birthday' wishes/prayers his way.

Must admit, I'm not a huge fan of his Sea Symphony.  I do have the Haitink recording of it and should give it a visit later....when I'm a bit more awake.

PD

For decades I never listened to a Sea Symphony, until I heard Haitink's recording which really was a revelation to me.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Online vandermolen

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4721 on: October 12, 2020, 08:58:09 AM »
Yup. I wrote about it in the DH thread. Coincidentally, moved by DH’s silly characterization of the performance as a snooze fest, yesterday I pulled out the disc for an airing on loudspeakers today or tomorrow (must wait for the missus to be away for 75 minutes  :P).

Haha - I can relate to that  ;D
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline Pohjolas Daughter

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4722 on: October 12, 2020, 03:10:33 PM »
This is the finest version I've heard.  Just incredible sonics and perfectly judged tempo...a far cry from the No. 8 and No. 9 release with the same forces which sounds terrible and ignores the score.  It's interesting why No. 1 resonates so much with some and not so much with others.  Try to put your finger on what it is that doesn't work for you when you revisit it.  Here is why the work is so moving to me.  It slowly evolves from being about the sea, ships, and sailors sailing off to the horizon to becoming a metaphor for the wandering of the soul where the horizon is after life.  It isn't just about the sea which is the giver of life, it transcends that to become about life, the universe, the earth and the soul's journey and the mystery that awaits beyond.  This transcending transformation is done so gloriously at the long ending.
Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts.  :)  I'll give it another visit soon (today was a bit crazy-busy).

Best wishes,

PD

Online vandermolen

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4723 on: October 15, 2020, 12:53:57 AM »
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Online Biffo

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4724 on: October 15, 2020, 02:09:23 AM »
Review of new Elder/Job disc:
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2020/Oct/VW-Job-CDHLL7556.htm

Interesting review and I agree with what he has to say about Neal Davies' vibrato though I found it less annoying on a third listen.

Online vandermolen

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4725 on: October 15, 2020, 10:02:31 AM »
Interesting review and I agree with what he has to say about Neal Davies' vibrato though I found it less annoying on a third listen.
I think that I'll still get it as I like both works very much.
On Radio 3, as I was driving to work this morning, they played the scherzo from 'A London Symphony' and I thought that it sounded like an excellent performance. It was Elder conducting. I enjoyed his 'A Pastoral Symphony' greatly but was rather put off buying any more of his series after a disappointing (IMO) recording of symphonies 4 and 6. So, at some point I might acquire 'A London Symphony' as well. Interesting to read your comments on the new 'Job' recording. What did you think about Elder's performance of 'Job' itself.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Online Biffo

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4726 on: October 17, 2020, 03:21:11 AM »
I think that I'll still get it as I like both works very much.
On Radio 3, as I was driving to work this morning, they played the scherzo from 'A London Symphony' and I thought that it sounded like an excellent performance. It was Elder conducting. I enjoyed his 'A Pastoral Symphony' greatly but was rather put off buying any more of his series after a disappointing (IMO) recording of symphonies 4 and 6. So, at some point I might acquire 'A London Symphony' as well. Interesting to read your comments on the new 'Job' recording. What did you think about Elder's performance of 'Job' itself.

The disc was reviewed this morning on BBC R3 Record Review and the response was positive. They played one of the Songs of Travel and Satan's Dance of Triumph. In the song Davies's vibrato came back to annoy me and Satan lacked impact on the radio (though not on the CD) - it was good to hear another positive review. For Job, on first hearing, I am more enthusiastic than the two reviews I have seen/heard so far and find it the best Job since Boult/LSO (my Gold Standard). I am sure someone will prefer a recording I missed.

After the disappointing Symphonies 4 & 6 I was very apprehensive. This was compounded by an Amazon delivery glitch and so I was a bit wound up by the time the disc finally arrived. I will now have to see if it stands the test of time.

Online vandermolen

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4727 on: October 17, 2020, 03:38:57 AM »
The disc was reviewed this morning on BBC R3 Record Review and the response was positive. They played one of the Songs of Travel and Satan's Dance of Triumph. In the song Davies's vibrato came back to annoy me and Satan lacked impact on the radio (though not on the CD) - it was good to hear another positive review. For Job, on first hearing, I am more enthusiastic than the two reviews I have seen/heard so far and find it the best Job since Boult/LSO (my Gold Standard). I am sure someone will prefer a recording I missed.

After the disappointing Symphonies 4 & 6 I was very apprehensive. This was compounded by an Amazon delivery glitch and so I was a bit wound up by the time the disc finally arrived. I will now have to see if it stands the test of time.
Many thanks Biffo. I think that I will certainly get it and may try to listen to Record Review later. I agree with you about Boult's EMI LSO recording - it was the first one I owned on LP. I purchases it shortly after hearing Boult conduct it on VW's 100th birthday on Oct.12th 1972 at the RFH when I was still at school. That was the first time that I'd heard the work. I also like Barry Wordsworth's recording on Alto and not just because I provided the booklet notes. I encouraged Alto the release it (from Collins Classics) and I think that it's a splendid performance. Maybe I'll ask my daughter to get me the Elder/Job for Christmas! Thanks again.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2020, 03:40:31 AM by vandermolen »
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline Christo

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4728 on: October 17, 2020, 05:23:16 AM »
A number of years late, finally my copy of the disc with 'Fat Knight', the suite from Sir John in Love, arrived. Any thoughts on the suite?


 
… music is not only an 'entertainment’, nor a mere luxury, but a necessity of the spiritual if not of the physical life, an opening of those magic casements through which we can catch a glimpse of that country where ultimate reality will be found.    RVW, 1948

Online vandermolen

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4729 on: October 17, 2020, 10:10:13 PM »
A number of years late, finally my copy of the disc with 'Fat Knight', the suite from Sir John in Love, arrived. Any thoughts on the suite?



I didn't think much of that CD with its stupid title. One of the few Dutton disappointments as far as I'm concerned. Something like Robin Milford's Symphony would have been a better choice. Others might like the disc more.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Online Biffo

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4730 on: October 18, 2020, 01:26:05 AM »
I didn't think much of that CD with its stupid title. One of the few Dutton disappointments as far as I'm concerned. Something like Robin Milford's Symphony would have been a better choice. Others might like the disc more.

Apparently 'Fat Knight' was RVW's original title for 'Sir John in Love'. He later gave the name to a suite drawn from the opera he never got round to orchestrating. I can't say I am drawn to the disc either. I have another spin-off from the complete opera - 'In Windsor Forest' - a cantata RVW put together for the Leith Hill Festival. It is from the Bournemouth Sinfonietta conducted by Norman Del Mar - I haven't heard it for years, will have to give it a spin soon.

Offline Roasted Swan

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4731 on: October 18, 2020, 03:09:59 AM »
Apparently 'Fat Knight' was RVW's original title for 'Sir John in Love'. He later gave the name to a suite drawn from the opera he never got round to orchestrating. I can't say I am drawn to the disc either. I have another spin-off from the complete opera - 'In Windsor Forest' - a cantata RVW put together for the Leith Hill Festival. It is from the Bournemouth Sinfonietta conducted by Norman Del Mar - I haven't heard it for years, will have to give it a spin soon.

"In Windsor Forest" is perfectly pleasant.  You can imagine RVW looking at ways of providing new music/getting royalties from creating these choral society-type works.  I suppose what lessens its appeal for me is the way it emphasises the slightly twee side of "Sir John in Love" which is what I struggle with in Hugh the Drover as well - the idealised pre-industrial revolution rural idyll

Online Biffo

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4732 on: October 18, 2020, 03:23:11 AM »
"In Windsor Forest" is perfectly pleasant.  You can imagine RVW looking at ways of providing new music/getting royalties from creating these choral society-type works.  I suppose what lessens its appeal for me is the way it emphasises the slightly twee side of "Sir John in Love" which is what I struggle with in Hugh the Drover as well - the idealised pre-industrial revolution rural idyll

I have just listened to 'In Windsor Forest' and I can see your point. Perfectly pleasant is a good description.

Online vandermolen

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4733 on: October 18, 2020, 11:22:07 PM »
A favourable review for Elder's new 'Job' disc in the Sunday Times yesterday:

'...The 45 minute score dates from 1930 and is one of his most richly orchestrated. Mark Elder follows Adrian Boult and Andrew Davis as a devoted advocate, with his Hallé orchestra at the peak of its powers. There are warmer toned accounts of the songs, but [Neil] Davies is always an honest musician.'

I like both of Andrew Davis's recordings of 'Job' on Teldec/Warner and Chandos:

« Last Edit: October 18, 2020, 11:29:09 PM by vandermolen »
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Online Biffo

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4734 on: October 19, 2020, 01:01:59 AM »
A favourable review for Elder's new 'Job' disc in the Sunday Times yesterday:

'...The 45 minute score dates from 1930 and is one of his most richly orchestrated. Mark Elder follows Adrian Boult and Andrew Davis as a devoted advocate, with his Hallé orchestra at the peak of its powers. There are warmer toned accounts of the songs, but [Neil] Davies is always an honest musician.'

I like both of Andrew Davis's recordings of 'Job' on Teldec/Warner and Chandos:



I had forgotten about Andrew Davis' Job on Warner, I have it as part of the box set of symphonies - something else to add to the list of 'things to listen to'. The Chandos version is very fine.

Online vandermolen

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4735 on: October 19, 2020, 01:31:21 AM »
I had forgotten about Andrew Davis' Job on Warner, I have it as part of the box set of symphonies - something else to add to the list of 'things to listen to'. The Chandos version is very fine.

Yes, I think that Andrew Davis CD featuring Symphony No.9 and 'Job' on Teldec/Warner was excellent. There was also IMO an even finer Davis version of the 9th Symphony which came with BBC Music Magazine. I'm currently listening to Vernon Handley's earlier CFP recordings of symphonies 2 and 6 which tended to get forgotten about when he recorded the whole cycle with the Royal Liverpool PO. In some ways I think that the earlier recordings have more character, especially 'A London Symphony' although at the cataclysmic start of the 6th Symphony the Liverpool PO deliver more impact. I like this double CD set as it also includes the short 'Prelude and Fugue' which I like very much. Also, I prefer this version to the one on Chandos:






« Last Edit: October 19, 2020, 04:11:33 AM by vandermolen »
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Online Biffo

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4736 on: October 19, 2020, 02:15:23 AM »
Yes, I think that Andrew Davis CD featuring Symphony No.9 and 'Job' on Teldec/Warner was excellent. There was also IMO an even finer Davis version of the 9th Symphony which came with BBC Music Magazine. I'm currently listening to Vernon Handley's earlier CFP recordings of symphonies 2 and 6 which tended to get forgotten about when he recorded the whole cycle with the Royal Liverpool PO. In some ways I think that the earlier recordings have more character, especially 'A London Symphony' although at the cataclysmic start of the 6th Symphony the Liverpool PO deliver more impact. I like this double CD set as it also includes the short 'Prelude and Fugue' which I like very much. Also, I prefer this version to the one on Chandos:

I have the CfP 'London' on a cassette, currently unplayable so I haven't heard it for a while. It came coupled with a rather robust Tallis Fantasia. I am tempted to buy the two-CD Warner set to refresh my memory.

Also, I am bit confused about which work you are referring to in the highlighted sentence.

Online vandermolen

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4737 on: October 19, 2020, 02:47:03 AM »
I have the CfP 'London' on a cassette, currently unplayable so I haven't heard it for a while. It came coupled with a rather robust Tallis Fantasia. I am tempted to buy the two-CD Warner set to refresh my memory.

Also, I am bit confused about which work you are referring to in the highlighted sentence.

Prelude and Fugue in C minor which was originally an organ work from 1921, around the time of 'A Pastoral Symphony' which VW transcribed for organ and orchestra in 1930. Here is the CD which features, as far as I'm aware, the only other recording. I think that you will like the Warner double CD set. I've just listened to Symphony No.6 which seems more 'alive' on CD than I remember from my old CFP LP. However, I loved the stormy LP cover image (shown above):
« Last Edit: October 19, 2020, 02:49:32 AM by vandermolen »
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Online Biffo

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4738 on: October 19, 2020, 03:21:29 AM »
Prelude and Fugue in C minor which was originally an organ work from 1921, around the time of 'A Pastoral Symphony' which VW transcribed for organ and orchestra in 1930. Here is the CD which features, as far as I'm aware, the only other recording. I think that you will like the Warner double CD set. I've just listened to Symphony No.6 which seems more 'alive' on CD than I remember from my old CFP LP. However, I loved the stormy LP cover image (shown above):


Thanks. I have that album as a download - something else to revisit!

Offline Roasted Swan

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4739 on: October 19, 2020, 03:59:41 AM »
Thanks. I have that album as a download - something else to revisit!

Your memory of the CFP disc is quite correct.  It reappeared on CD as part of a "Silver-Double" set - awful artwork masking an excellent pair of discs;

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Best-England-Ralph-Vaughan-Williams/dp/B000025VIM/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=The+best+of+England&qid=1603108495&s=music&sr=1-1

The 1st disc not only contains the robust Tallis you mention but also the same Prelude & Fugue performance AND one of the great Britten Serenades from Ian Partridge with Nicholas Busch the glorious horn soloist.  Handley's Tippettt Double Concerto completes this disc.  Disc 2 is not quite so distinguished with an OK Britten violin concerto and a so-so Belshazzar from James Loughran and the Halle.  Not awful just not competitive.