Dvorak Symphonies: Complete Sets & Singles

[aukhawk]

As performances, the Kertesz cycle is wonderful.  Glass-half-full sort of music.

Setting aside for a moment the HD 'remaster' version, I don't believe there is any difference to be heard between any of the other Decca-branded CD releases, either singles, twofers or cycles.  They all faithfully reproduce the good but slightly bright and glarey sound-world of the original vinyl releases, as commented upon by reviewers at the time of their release - with added digital clarity.

By comparison with these, the HD remaster has been subjected to some processing, which is more visible (on close analysis with visual software) than audible, I'd say.  The difference isn't really noticeable except maybe on a straight A/B switch in a few selected passages - basically it is still a faithful reproduction of that original good but bright sound-world.  If anything I'd say it's closer to the original vinyl sound than the CD transfers were - but fine margins, nothing worth paying extra for.

Having lived with and enjoyed the Kertesz recordings ever since they were released (!!), I would now put in a word for Belohlavek - quite a contrast really, warmer, more affectionate, more relaxed.  And of course more modern sound.

[Brahmsian]

Thanks for the feedback everyone. Turns out I can't seem to find a decent very good condition set of the Kertesz (in any of the three formats) at a reasonable price.

How about Rowicki? How does this set compare to Kertesz (ie. performance energy, tempos, sound quality?)

[Brian]

Thanks for the feedback everyone. Turns out I can't seem to find a decent very good condition set of the Kertesz (in any of the three formats) at a reasonable price.

How about Rowicki? How does this set compare to Kertesz (ie. performance energy, tempos, sound quality?)

Actually very similar in sound and energy - same label (now) and orchestra - similar tempos, two of the rare conductors to take the repeat in 6.i. Rowicki is sometimes a little too fast (5) but since you have Pesek, you have the perfect corrective to a too-fast version. Rowicki does use an alternative edition of 2 with some major changes, and the booklet does not explain this at all, but this is true pro-level complaining  Overall, a set I would recommend fairly highly. The Third Symphony funeral march is a jaw-dropper and all the scherzos are perfect.

[Brahmsian]

Actually very similar in sound and energy - same label (now) and orchestra - similar tempos, two of the rare conductors to take the repeat in 6.i. Rowicki is sometimes a little too fast (5) but since you have Pesek, you have the perfect corrective to a too-fast version. Rowicki does use an alternative edition of 2 with some major changes, and the booklet does not explain this at all, but this is true pro-level complaining  Overall, a set I would recommend fairly highly. The Third Symphony funeral march is a jaw-dropper and all the scherzos are perfect.

Sold! 

As you said, I am looking for a contrast to Pesek. Sounds like Rowicki is a sure bet if I can't find Kertesz. I like peppy and brisk.

[Brahmsian]

Oh well.....it looks like I am SOL for both Kertesz and Rowicki.  Can't find a good quality set of those at a humanly decent price.

[Brian]

 
Suitner?!

I have to imagine we're only a year or two away from a large Kertesz Complete Recordings box.

[Brahmsian]

Suitner?!

I have to imagine we're only a year or two away from a large Kertesz Complete Recordings box.

Maybe.  I keep going back and forth between all the recommendations here and Hurwitz' video on the symphony cycles.  I'm mulling about it. 

[Brian]

Maybe.  I keep going back and forth between all the recommendations here and Hurwitz' video on the symphony cycles.  I'm mulling about it. 

The lucky thing is that there really are not too many Dvorak symphony cycles, and some of them (Gunzenhauser, Chichon/Inkinen, Valek, Serebrier) can be safely ignored. So you don't have a ton of choices to make things complicated, especially if half are unavailable 

(Actually only Gunzenhauser's 7 and 8 are really bad, he is very good in 2, 5, 6, and 9, but the sound quality is ratty - anyway, that $45 Naxos "complete orchestral works" box is still a possibility, maybe.)

[Brahmsian]

Suitner?!

I have to imagine we're only a year or two away from a large Kertesz Complete Recordings box.

Hmm, regarding Suitner, I might be put off by the screeching chair in the scherzo to the 4th symphony (one of my favourite Dvorak movements!!) 

Kubelik? 

Anguelov?  (Hurwitz' sleeper pick)

Neumann apparently is more bucolic/restrained (in the vein of Pesek), so likely don't want that if I want a contrast to Pesek.

[Brahmsian]

Hmm, regarding Suitner, I might be put off by the screeching chair in the scherzo to the 4th symphony (one of my favourite Dvorak movements!!) 

Kubelik? 

Anguelov?  (Hurwitz' sleeper pick)

Neumann apparently is more bucolic/restrained (in the vein of Pesek), so likely don't want that if I want a contrast to Pesek.

Ahh, maybe I ought to try Suitner.  It is dirt cheap and available.

[SonicMan46]

Ahh, maybe I ought to try Suitner.  It is dirt cheap and available.

Hi again Ray - frustrating, I know - have been looking for that 9-disc 'improved' Decca box for a while - Amazon USA is of no help - have tried my two usual 'across the pond' websites, i.e. PrestoClassical & JPC - below are screen captures; JPC is offering the older 9-disc box at a decent price but S&H will add to the cost; Presto has the same physical box but apparently 'not in stock' - now DLs are offered @ the latter, but if I wanted that 'new' 9-disc box, FLAC would be the way to go which I've not worked w/ much at all (have been doing MP3 DLs for years and burning CD-Rs).

Now there has been only brief mention of the Jiri Belohlavek box - I own Kertesz, Rowicki, & Suitner - if I wanted to replace one, my choice would be the Suitner - SO, I'd be curious about comments from others concerning the Belohlavek box?  Dave

[Brahmsian]

SO, I'd be curious about comments from others concerning the Belohlavek box?  Dave

I can't comment as I haven't heard them, but David Hurwitz calls the performances of the symphonies "duller than ditch water/dish water", although he praises the performances of the concertos in the set.  But of course, that's one opinion.  I generally tend to agree with his opinions.  He was disappointed because he expected a lot more from Belohlavek.

[Brian]

From what I've heard and sampled, Belohlavek falls more in the style of Pesek where everything is more relaxed, a bit slower, more lyrical rather than rhythmical. I don't own it though.

Maybe this afternoon I'll put on Suitner's Fourth and listen for that chair.

[DavidW]

I've heard all the sets excepting the first Neumann.  They are all fine and that includes Belohlavek.  For a complete set I suppose Rowicki is my favorite.

[Brahmsian]

Maybe this afternoon I'll put on Suitner's Fourth and listen for that chair.

  I could be relatively imperceptible.  Please report back if you do. 

[aukhawk]

Various iterations of the Kertesz set are certainly available via Presto, but perhaps not as cut-price as they should be (given that, back in the day, they were offered at super-bargain price, one of the first bargain box sets from Decca, along with the Sibelius/Maazel symphony cycle similarly cut price).

Belohlavek I regard as a very good 'alternative' alongside Kertesz (meaning, I think they are quite different and complement each other), to my ears it's a genial, more lyrical approach and of course the sound is unproblematic.
If I could only have one, then it would have to be Kertesz who is more driven, and takes this music to another level of 'happiness'.  For me there are issues with the sound though - the cycle was recorded over some years in the same venue and the earliest recordings (the 8th in 1963, then the 7th a year later) are a bit difficult to listen to, I find.  By the time of the 5th and 6th though, a couple of years later, the same distinctive sound signature is tamed and refined, and presents no real problems.  These two are my favourites out of Kertesz' cycle - if you can find the inexpensive twofer of the 4th, 5th, 6th that's a great option to have.  The remaining symphonies were recorded later still. 



Rowicki interestingly recorded with the same orchestra but a different venue, overlapping a slightly later range of recording dates - the two 6ths were recorded in the same year, Rowicki first - the LSO must have been playing Dvorak in their sleep through the '60s ....

[Brahmsian]

(Actually only Gunzenhauser's 7 and 8 are really bad, he is very good in 2, 5, 6, and 9, but the sound quality is ratty - anyway, that $45 Naxos "complete orchestral works" box is still a possibility, maybe.)

Hmmm, it is a consideration.  The complete orchestral works box sounds tantalizing (David Hurwitz praised it highly, outside of the symphonies, although he didn't outright dismiss them.)  That video was an interesting one.  17 discs for that price is quite a bargain.

Leaning towards not getting it, but it is on the backburner of my mind, stewing and simmering. 

[Roasted Swan]

The lucky thing is that there really are not too many Dvorak symphony cycles, and some of them (Gunzenhauser, Chichon/Inkinen, Valek, Serebrier) can be safely ignored. So you don't have a ton of choices to make things complicated, especially if half are unavailable 

(Actually only Gunzenhauser's 7 and 8 are really bad, he is very good in 2, 5, 6, and 9, but the sound quality is ratty - anyway, that $45 Naxos "complete orchestral works" box is still a possibility, maybe.)

Not sure I'd say Serebrier can be "safely ignored".  Also, the Jarvi SNO cycle is pretty good and then there is an older Kosler/Slovak PO which sounds very authentic too.  I liked the Chichon recordings of the early symphonies - direct and unfussy - but thought Inkinen simply dull.  At the end of the day Kertesz is probably the cycle that will please most of the people most of the time (but I'd go for Neumann's analogue if I could only have oe)

[amw]

I haven't really heard any especially bad recordings of the Dvořák symphonies, and I've listened to a fair few. The ones I revisit the most often:

Neumann purple box—the most well balanced performances overall
Järvi Scotland—I was not expecting to like this but it is fast and exciting and in good sound (and makes Symphony No. 1 sound good)
Kertész London—overall the best performances, but the iteration I have is pretty badly brickwalled

Plus:

Bělohlávek BBC 5 & 6 - better than his Czech remake
Šejna 5 - you cannot go wrong with Karel Šejna in general
Hengelbrock 4 -
Dohnányi Cleveland 6, 7 & 8 - if you like that sort of thing
Chung Vienna 3, 4, 7 & 8, although I wasn't as impressed with the disc of 4 & 8 as I was with the disc of 3 & 7

[André]

Not sure I'd say Serebrier can be "safely ignored".  Also, the Jarvi SNO cycle is pretty good and then there is an older Kosler/Slovak PO which sounds very authentic too.  I liked the Chichon recordings of the early symphonies - direct and unfussy - but thought Inkinen simply dull.  At the end of the day Kertesz is probably the cycle that will please most of the people most of the time (but I'd go for Neumann's analogue if I could only have oe)

I have that in a Brilliant release. It is incomplete in that the 8th is conducted by Menuhin and the 9th by Paavo Järvi, both with the RPO. I find it good to superb, this latter epithet applying to the 7th symphony. I was curious to hear Kosler in the last two (he has recorded them), so I recently bought the 8th, also with the Slovak PO. It is as good as his 7th. Haven't heard the 9th though. Considering they exist and were recorded with the same orchestra I don't understand why Brilliant chose to exclude them from the set, though. The tone poems are included. Not a first or even second choice, but some great performances from Kosler and characterful playing from the Slovak Phil.