The Men's Rights Movement

[Karl Henning]

(I just erased the next five paragraphs- you should be proud of me!!_)

You are making progress!

[kishnevi]

Make no mistake: A man who wrote a similar passage about wanting to leave his wife because he felt overwhelmed would be considered a selfish asshole. Those are the type of biases the men's rights movement fights against.

edit to add: she did leave her husband and went on a world adventure screwing other men.

It must therefore come to you as a surprise to learn that there are plenty of people who consider the woman who wrote that a selfish a--hole.  The bias you are claiming does not exist.

Your whole argument depends on two assumptions:  that most women can support themselves and their children without any contribution from the father of the children, and that men should have no responsibility in supporting their children.  The first is true only if you think government welfare is a good option.   The second is...well, let us put it kindly and say "absurd on its face".

You seem to think that alimony is a permanent thing.  It would therefore surprise you to know that in most circumstances,  temporary alimony (ie, the spigot turns off after a certain number of months) is the legal norm now, and permanent alimony is granted only if the wife can prove exceptional circumstances--that's she disabled or something similar--which mean she will never be able to support herself.

And the only winners in 'fault' divorce is the lawyers;  "good" wives were just as much liable to get the shaft then as now, and "bad" husbands get off the hook then as now.

[ibanezmonster]

The far right does not hate women, except insofar as their opposition to abortion is interpreted as hatred against women. If you look at the history of stuff like no fault divorce, outrageous divorce settlements unfavorable to men, etc...the right wing never stood in the way of that stuff and in fact helped institutionalize much of it. For instance, it was Reagan who signed into law no fault divorce in California.

What I'm thinking about is conservative thought in general- like how the middle east is deeply conservative and woman-hating.

[Sammy]

In these days of increased equality for women, men need to stand up and highlight their strengths instead of whining all the time.  It's been my experience that women don't want men who have given up their manly stature, a category that Abe and others are headed towards. 

I'd also like to say that hard-core feminists are just a tiny percentage of the population.  Personally, I don't even give them any thought.

[ibanezmonster]

manly stature

What is this?

[lisa needs braces]

It must therefore come to you as a surprise to learn that there are plenty of people who consider the woman who wrote that a selfish a--hole.  The bias you are claiming does not exist.

Yet oddly, she felt emboldened enough to write a book exulting in her selfishness, which was a bestseller, and also made into a movie, featured on Oprah, etc etc. I have not seen a single criticism directed at her from the mainstream about her breaking her marital vows. I don't believe a man could get away with celebrating something like that, have it turn into a successful book/film and featured on daytime televison. The bias most certainly exists: Society is okay with women engaging in frivolous divorce at the expense of men. The practice has been dubbed "frivorce."

Your whole argument depends on two assumptions:  that most women can support themselves and their children without any contribution from the father of the children, and that men should have no responsibility in supporting their children.  The first is true only if you think government welfare is a good option.   The second is...well, let us put it kindly and say "absurd on its face".

I make no such assumptions. As I said, I believe in fault based divorce. No woman who engages in frivorce should get custody of the children (if the husband wants them) and be entitled to any sort of support from the husband. It is the promise and guarantee of support and excessive child support payments from the husband (for which there is no mechanisms to ensure that they actually go the children) that drives women to file for divorce 33% percent more than men.

You seem to think that alimony is a permanent thing.  It would therefore surprise you to know that in most circumstances,  temporary alimony (ie, the spigot turns off after a certain number of months) is the legal norm now, and permanent alimony is granted only if the wife can prove exceptional circumstances--that's she disabled or something similar--which mean she will never be able to support herself.

Yea, never mind the splitting of assets 50% each way, even if the wife only contributed 15% of the assets. You should be entitled to nothing if you break your vows.

[Karl Henning]

Manager told the one woman on duty at the shop yesterday evening to "listen to the men" at one point. Nobody waging war on him, daggummit!

[Karl Henning]

If the women in my life are waging war on me, they have deployed the weaponry of love. Frightfully shrewd!

[lisa needs braces]

In these days of increased equality for women, men need to stand up and highlight their strengths instead of whining all the time.  It's been my experience that women don't want men who have given up their manly stature, a category that Abe and others are headed towards. 

Respectable masculinity and manhood is not innate -- it's fostered, and the public school system in the United States, dominated by women, is not interested in fostering that sort of thing. The ideal student in this system is female, hence why so many young boys need to be medicated.

[lisa needs braces]

If the women in my life are waging war on me, they have deployed the weaponry of love. Frightfully shrewd!

You don't say!!!!

!!!!!!!!!

!!!!!!

!!!

!!

!

[Sammy]

Respectable masculinity and manhood is not innate -- it's fostered, and the public school system in the United States, dominated by women, is not interested in fostering that sort of thing. The ideal student in this system is female, hence why so many young boys need to be medicated.

Maybe you should watch a couple of Rambo movies.

[Karl Henning]

You don't say!!!!

!!!!!!!!!

!!!!!!

!!!

!!

!

They love their manly man.

[ibanezmonster]

So is paying for dates and buying a woman stuff part of the "chivalrous" "being a man?"

[lisa needs braces]

So is paying for dates and buying a woman stuff part of the "chivalrous" "being a man?"

Paying for stuff to woo the woman is just part of a genetic script. Women feel sexy when men do this sort of thing for them as it validates their attractiveness.

[lisa needs braces]

Great, judge validates polygamy.

Now the increasingly fewer marriageable men will share all the women.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/12/14/Federal-Judge-Rules-Laws-Against-Polygamy-Unconstitutional

[lisa needs braces]

They love their manly man.

And damn well they should.

[ibanezmonster]

Paying for stuff to woo the woman is just part of a genetic script. Women feel sexy when men do this sort of thing for them as it validates their attractiveness.

I would say something, but I'm waiting for Karl and Don's answer. I really want to know what they think. 

[lisa needs braces]

I would say something, but I'm waiting for Karl and Don's answer. I really want to know what they think. 

Sex as Female Resource for Social Exchange in Heterosexual Interactions:

http://www.carlsonschool.umn.edu/assets/71503.pdf

[ibanezmonster]

Sex as Female Resource for Social Exchange in Heterosexual Interactions:

http://www.carlsonschool.umn.edu/assets/71503.pdf

This is just way too much for me to read...

[ibanezmonster]

What I don't get is why so many women care so much about a guy's social status. I remember a coworker (who is probably in his 40s or so) telling me that when he was in college, he was in a fraternity and very popular because of it. During that time, he had about 4 girlfriends at the same time, but at no other time in his life has something like that happened. He would party like crazy as well.

Fraternities are freaking retarded to begin with. Just beyond stupid. Just because a guy doesn't like to go out and be social all the time doesn't make him creepy or a loser. Why would I waste my time at parties with people doing nothing interesting but acting stupid and playing terrible music? I know I don't have a problem if a woman stays inside much of the time and could care less about their social status, and as far as I know it isn't that important to other guys, as well.

Seems the way society has set up relationships is that the man is like a job seeker and the women is the employer. The man asks the woman out and if it's a yes, then it's like getting a job. Woman rarely ever ask men out. I just don't like the way that is set up. Both genders should be free to feel equally passive or aggressive as they'd like, because it'd be more equal.