Beethoven's Piano Sonatas

[SurprisedByBeauty]

This almost implies the existence of four cycles.  The PBS site shows Intercord, Gramola, and Astree.  Whether it is three or four, I want the one(s) I do not own.  (Maybe the Intercord/MHS might be reissues of the Westminster recordings.)

I'm thinking the latter could be the case. In any case, DG just released a PBS Edition, and while it includes a complete set of the LvB Piano Concertos, it only includes three or four LvB sonatas. But the set also states: A SELECTION of PBS' recordings, making no claims of being complete.

[Parsifal]

This almost implies the existence of four cycles.  The PBS site shows Intercord, Gramola, and Astree.  Whether it is three or four, I want the one(s) I do not own.  (Maybe the Intercord/MHS might be reissues of the Westminster recordings.)

The MHS says stereo, which would rule out the Westminster cycle, which seems to have been Mono.

https://www.discogs.com/Paul-Badura-Skoda-Beethoven-Sonata-No-30-In-E-Major-Op-109-Sonata-No-28-In-A-Major-Op-101/release/8391984

Release data of that issue is 1955, the mono era.

Westminster was started by the same guy who started MHS, a clue.

[Todd]

The MHS says stereo, which would rule out the Westminster cycle, which seems to have been Mono.

Hopefully Jens can get to the bottom of all this.  It could be helpful to know who to browbeat to get some recordings reissued.  If there is a Westminster cycle, it would be interesting to see if a campaign to flood Eloquence with requests for a reissue might work since it takes suggestions from the public.  (I don't know what is done with those suggestions.)

[Parsifal]

The Intercord LPs were released in 1970, maybe the MHS is a re-release of the Intercord. The Intercord catalog was acquired by EMI, and is presumably controlled by Warner now.

I agree, it seems like Eloquence is the best bet for a release of the Westminster cycle. Who knows if anyone at Warner even knows the Intercord cycle exists.

[amw]

Intercord/MHS cycle seems to be the same as Gramola based on timings listed on discogs.

[Brian]

Gramola has issued two boxes of PBS Beethoven, both recorded 1969-1970 at the Vienna Konzerthaus. Just used NML to check the PDF documentation on both.

[Parsifal]

Gramola has issued two boxes of PBS Beethoven, both recorded 1969-1970 at the Vienna Konzerthaus. Just used NML to check the PDF documentation on both.

That seems to be consistent with the Intercord LP release date of 1970. It leaves only the Westminster of 1953-55 MIA, of which DGG has released three Sonatas in that new 20CD set.

[Todd]

Intercord/MHS cycle seems to be the same as Gramola based on timings listed on discogs.

The Paul Badura-Skoda website and ClassicsToday review of the Gramola set both indicate they are different.

From ClassicsToday:

"Paul Badura-Skoda and the Beethoven sonatas have had a long discographical relationship since the 1950s. The pianist first recorded five "name" sonatas for Westminster (the "Moonlight", Pathetique", Appassionata", "Pastoral", and "Tempest"). He later undertook all 32 sonatas for an LP release brought out in the U.S. by the Musical Heritage Society to tie in with Beethoven's 1970 bicentenary. More recently, he remade the cycle for Astrée, using period instruments. According to Badura-Skoda's American management, the present 1969/70 recordings remained unedited and unreleased until now. In the main, they were worth the wait."

It's possible that the Intercord and Gramola sets are the same, and that the third (or fourth) cycle is Westminster, or that there is no third (and/or fourth) cycle at all.  It's also possible that the Intercord/MHS set contains part of the Gramola set since the PBS site lists the instrument as Steinway and Bosendorfer, while the Gramola set is all Bosendorfer.  Hence the importance (word used lightly) of Jens being able to find out directly from the pianist, if that comes to pass.  All I know is that if there is another cycle, I want it.

Gramola has issued two boxes of PBS Beethoven, both recorded 1969-1970 at the Vienna Konzerthaus. Just used NML to check the PDF documentation on both.

The second box included one additional disc on a Graf piano.

From PBS site on the 10-disc set:

Instrument: Bösendorfer Imperial / Fortepiano by Conrad Graf, 1824
Recorded / Published: CD 1–9 , rec. 1969-1970, CD 10: live 1976, Warsaw (Bösendorfer) and 1980, Fortepiano by Conrad Graf, 1824. New CD-Release, 2012

[Parsifal]

The pianist first recorded five "name" sonatas for Westminster (the "Moonlight", Pathetique", Appassionata", "Pastoral", and "Tempest"). He later undertook all 32 sonatas for an LP release brought out in the U.S. by the Musical Heritage Society to tie in with Beethoven's 1970 bicentenary.

That seems to be an incomplete list of Westminster recordings at best. At the very least it omits this disc, including #28 and #30.



Admittedly the wording does not strictly rule out a Westminster cycle.

I suspect that B-S's statement in the usenet post I cited above that he did a "cycle" is right. It's hearsay, of course.

[Todd]

I suspect that B-S's statement in the usenet post I cited above that he did a "cycle" is right. It's hearsay, of course.

He has been prolific, so I wouldn't be surprised if he as recorded three or even four cycles.  He recorded two Schubert sonata cycles.  How many people do that?

[Marc]

[...]
From PBS site on the 10-disc set:

Instrument: Bösendorfer Imperial / Fortepiano by Conrad Graf, 1824
Recorded / Published: CD 1–9 , rec. 1969-1970, CD 10: live 1976, Warsaw (Bösendorfer) and 1980, Fortepiano by Conrad Graf, 1824. New CD-Release, 2012

That's the one I bought earlier this year... the 10th disc offers 2 'Hammerklaviers' as a bonus (one, indeed, on fortepiano). So, it's a Hammerbox, with 3x opus 106.

https://www.amazon.com/S%C3%A4mtliche-Klaviersonaten-Paul-Badura-Skoda/dp/B009L4JTFI/?tag=goodmusicguideco

It's good, but I don't know about the tier.

Now I DEMAND an affordable fortepiano Astrée set.
(Are they waiting for his 100th birthday?)

[Parsifal]

He has been prolific, so I wouldn't be surprised if he as recorded three or even four cycles.  He recorded two Schubert sonata cycles.  How many people do that?

Come what will, I want that recording of #28. It's my favorite Beethoven Piano Sonata.

[Marc]

That seems to be an incomplete list of Westminster recordings at best. At the very least it omits this disc, including #28 and #30.



Admittedly the wording does not strictly rule out a Westminster cycle.

I suspect that B-S's statement in the usenet post I cited above that he did a "cycle" is right. It's hearsay, of course.

Nice cover btw.

Come what will, I want that recording of #28. It's my favorite Beethoven Piano Sonata.

Couldn't tell which 'one' is my favourite of the 32. Opp. 90, 101 and 110 make the Top 3 maybe.
But then I listen to f.i. op 31 nos 2 & 3 or the Waldstein, well, .... after one weekend of Beethoven's Klavier I might have more than a dozen favourites.

[prémont]

To make things more complicated I own a three CD set (Concerto Royale - some consider it a pirate label) with pianosonatas by LvB. Vol. 1 is played by Walter Bohle, but vol. 2 is allegedly played by Paul Badura-Skoda on fortepiano (sonatas 3, 8 and 26) and vol. 3 contains sonata 1 played by P B-S on fortepiano, sonata 18 played by Jörg Demus on modern piano and sonata 12 played by P B-S on modern piano. I have not made A/B tests of other than the sonata 1, and while the playing style well may point to P B-S, it is with certainty not the Astrëe recording. The playing times of the others (3, 9, 26) are also different from the Astrée recordings. So what is it?

[Todd]

So what is it?

Could be mislabeled.  Could be recordings not included in the PBS discography. 

[Todd]

As I thought about pestering Eloquence to reissue a potential PBS Westminster cycle, it occurred to me that since UMG owns most of the Koch-Schwann catalog, Eloquence might be able to reissue the Gotthard Kladetzky set.  Hmm.

[Parsifal]

As I thought about pestering Eloquence to reissue a potential PBS Westminster cycle, it occurred to me that since UMG owns most of the Koch-Schwann catalog, Eloquence might be able to reissue the Gotthard Kladetzky set.  Hmm.

Has Eloquence Australia ever reissued something other than Decca/Philips/DGG? I don't recall anything outside the core "Polygram" labels turning up (except argo, which was a name Decca used for some British music in the 90's).

[Todd]

Has Eloquence Australia ever reissued something other than Decca/Philips/DGG? I don't recall anything outside the core "Polygram" labels turning up (except argo, which was a name Decca used for some British music in the 90's).

They've reissued at least one ABC Classics recording and some that are now, or were at the time of reissue, labelled Universal Classics or Universal Classics & Jazz, but I don't know if any Koch-Schwann titles have been reissued before.

[Pat B]

The MHS says stereo, which would rule out the Westminster cycle, which seems to have been Mono.
...
Release data of that issue is 1955, the mono era.

Westminster was started by the same guy who started MHS, a clue.

RCA started recording in stereo in early 1954. It's possible that Westminster recorded in stereo in 1955 even though they didn't release in stereo until a few years later. It's also possible that the MHS set was artificial stereo from a mono original.

Wikipedia says MHS was founded in 1962 and Intercord in 1966. But the online discography has a recording date of 1955 for the Intercord/MHS cycle. My guess is those labels licensed the recordings from whoever owned Westminster's catalog at the time.

Will be interesting to see what Jens learns!

[SurprisedByBeauty]

I can confirm that the information on BPS's website is faulty at least in this regard: The INTERCORD cycle was the one recorded in 1970 for the Konzerthaus which was then edited by Rico Gulda und Albert Franz for CD release on Gramola in the early 2000s.

So if there is a 1955 cycle, it wasn't for Intercord. It may have been for Westminster. I don't know if the Heritage Society one is the same as the Intercord (I would assume so much).