Beethoven's Piano Sonatas

[AnotherSpin]

Backhaus is one of my most favored LvB pianists since long. As I wrote in another forum it was when I inherited one of his complete Beethoven sonata sets that my longtime interest in this music started for good.

Some musicians are/were assh***s, others far from. Usually I don't associate this with their music making. Other than I avoid Valery Gergiev, Valentina Lisitsa and alike.

As for me, I never quite understood all the fuss about Lisitsa, long before she discovered the promotional value of dabbling in politics. I recall that, ages ago, I rather liked some of Gergiev's recordings, though I couldn't say now which ones exactly. Perhaps Cavalleria Rusticana with Norman? But, in much the same way, I found myself disappointed in him as a conductor well before Mr Putin began parading him about for his own little spectacles.

Backhaus, on the other hand, I have always admired, and my admiration has only deepened with time.

[prémont]

As for me, I never quite understood all the fuss about Lisitsa, long before she discovered the promotional value of dabbling in politics. I recall that, ages ago, I rather liked some of Gergiev's recordings, though I couldn't say now which ones exactly. Perhaps Cavalleria Rusticana with Norman? But, in much the same way, I found myself disappointed in him as a conductor well before Mr Putin began parading him about for his own little spectacles.

Backhaus, on the other hand, I have always admired, and my admiration has only deepened with time.

Even if Gergiev and Lisitsa were great musicians, I would avoid them.

[Florestan]

Even if Gergiev and Lisitsa were great musicians, I would avoid them.

I avoid Gergiev as well. I will not avoid Lisitsa's boxset of Tchaikovsky's complete piano music, which has been "sitting" in my hard drives for far too long.

One that I avoid completely, no matter how widely acclaimed his recordings, is James Levine. Supporting dictators is bad enough but there's always the question of sincerity vs opportunism, and in any case the supporters are not personally or morally responsible for the dictator's crimes --- whereas molesting children is abominable and inexcusable and always involves personal and moral responsibility.

[AnotherSpin]

Even if Gergiev and Lisitsa were great musicians, I would avoid them.

I understand what you mean.

[prémont]

Supporting dictators is bad enough but there's always the question of sincerity vs opportunism, and in any case the supporters are not personally or morally responsible for the dictator's crimes --

I am not sure that this is completely true. But in any case, people like that fill me with disgust.

[Spotted Horses]

Even if Gergiev and Lisitsa were great musicians, I would avoid them.

If I find a performer morally unacceptable I prefer to avoid anything that would materially benefit them, either financially or by enhancing their professional stature. When they are dead and gone it doesn't matter, except that there can be a residual ick factor. I can't imagine why anyone would be inclined list listen to Levine, for instance, since he was by no means a transcendent talent. I can't think of any recording he made that couldn't be substituted with an equally good performance made by someone who wasn't a child molester.

[AnotherSpin]

If I find a performer morally unacceptable I prefer to avoid anything that would materially benefit them, either financially or by enhancing their professional stature. When they are dead and gone it doesn't matter, except that there can be a residual ick factor. I can't imagine why anyone would be inclined list listen to Levine, for instance, since he was by no means a transcendent talent. I can't think of any recording he made that couldn't be substituted with an equally good performance made by someone who wasn't a child molester.

Is it true that Levine denied the allegations and filed a defamation lawsuit against the Met, which was settled with the Met paying him $3.5 million in compensation?

[Spotted Horses]

Is it true that Levine denied the allegations and filed a defamation lawsuit against the Met, which was settled with the Met paying him $3.5 million in compensation?

That is correct, but I believe there substance of the suit was breach of contract - his sexual conduct was not just cause for firing under the terms of his contract and they had to pay him.

His problems started with a police investigation into accusations by former students, and eventually there were four independent accusers. Then the stories were revealed in a series of articles in the press. It was an open secret in the business during most of his career. The issue is that Levine made his career during an era when "geniuses" could get away with this sort of thing.

[AnotherSpin]

That is correct, but I believe there substance of the suit was breach of contract - his sexual conduct was not just cause for firing under the terms of his contract and they had to pay him.

His problems started with a police investigation into accusations by former students, and eventually there were four independent accusers. Then the stories were revealed in a series of articles in the press. It was an open secret in the business during most of his career. The issue is that Levine made his career during an era when "geniuses" could get away with this sort of thing.

I don't know the details of this story, and to be honest I've little interest in the issues that capture the American public. Still, it struck me that a few years back it became almost fashionable to accuse high-profile figures of supposed sexual assault or harassment said to have happened decades ago. One case I recall concerned Bob Dylan. No doubt some were merely out to make money or to follow the trend. Moral panics do seem to be a familiar feature of Western cultural life. And where belief in freedom of choice reigns, accusations become inevitable, almost a duty. In the end, each to their own, people must have something to talk about.

[Spotted Horses]

So you are on record as saying it is ok for people in positions of power to coerce subordinates, including children, into sexual acts. It must have something to do with your theory that there is no self, and all that.

[prémont]

So you are on record as saying it is ok for people in positions of power to coerce subordinates, including children, into sexual acts. It must have something to do with your theory that there is no self, and all that.

I don't think this is what Another Spin says. He is just expressing that the me too movement has gone to far - and he is not the only one to say so.

[prémont]

And, at least in some cases, the best pianist can only be heard in a specific recording. For instance, the best version of Beethoven's Piano Sonata No. 30 (the sonata I have listened to the most versions of) is Backhaus - 1969 (Firenze), and this is despite me loathing Backhaus as a person (he might have been an asshat, but he was an incredible pianist).

Nothing has even come close to approaching that depth, that warmth - you can feel as if his fingers simply melt into the keys, and it becomes an seamless combination of man/machine - cyborg-ish. (I probably have listened to nearly all the versions of this, including the live ones on YouTube.)

Only recently I got hold of Backhaus' Firenze recital from 1969, made two months before he passed, 85 years old. I hadn't heard it yet, but you prompted me to find it and listen to it.

I am at the same time very impressed and very moved by his playing. Impressed because of his fabulous piano technique which seemingly has no limits, moved because of his heartfelt, flowing and eloquent interpretation which has a beneficial human element of spontaneity. The sonata op. 109 is indeed the most emotionally rewarding for the listener but op. 53 and 28 are almost in the same class. The recital also includes op. 81a which I shall listen to tomorrow.

[Madiel]

Levine's victims were above the age of consent.

They were still victims. But describing him as a child molester gives a somewhat inaccurate impression. Abuser of power, certainly.

Moving on.

[Spotted Horses]

I don't think this is what Another Spin says. He is just expressing that the me too movement has gone to far - and he is not the only one to say so.

I would say it hasn't gone far enough.

[Spotted Horses]

Levine's victims were above the age of consent.

They were still victims. But describing him as a child molester gives a somewhat inaccurate impression. Abuser of power, certainly.

Moving on.

I would agree that child molester is not the correct term. However the age of consent in Illinois is 17, and some of the victims were 16. The behavior alleged would have been criminal.

[prémont]

I would say it hasn't gone far enough.

Maybe not in the US, but certainly in my country.

[Madiel]

I would agree that child molester is not the correct term. However the age of consent in Illinois is 17, and some of the victims were 16. The behavior alleged would have been criminal.

The Wikipedia article on Levine explicitly refers to the age of consent being 16 at the time. That it's 17 now is apt to mislead.

[hopefullytrusting]

[AnotherSpin]

I don't think this is what Another Spin says. He is just expressing that the me too movement has gone to far - and he is not the only one to say so.

Yes, thank you.

[AnotherSpin]

So you are on record as saying it is ok for people in positions of power to coerce subordinates, including children, into sexual acts. It must have something to do with your theory that there is no self, and all that.

Of course there is a self. The only trouble is, people insist on imagining it's boxed in by the body and the mind. And, I don't deal in theories, or borrowed knowledge, I rely only on my own direct, actual knowing .