Beethoven's Piano Sonatas

[Daverz]

George's updated list of favorite LvB sonata recordings

Quite a vote of confidence in the Lucchesini cycle, an artist I had not heard of before.  This is the cycle on Stradivari?

What is the format of the choices here?

[George]

Quite a vote of confidence in the Lucchesini cycle, an artist I had not heard of before.

It's my current favorite set, overall.

This is the cycle on Stradivari?

Yes.

What is the format of the choices here?

I have it on CD, but it is sadly OOP.


[/quote]

[Daverz]

It's my current favorite set, overall.
Yes.
I have it on CD, but it is sadly OOP.

I mean I assume the names separated by slashes are first choices and the following comma separated list is... also top choices? Or just the other recordings auditioned?

[George]

I mean I assume the names separated by slashes are first choices and the following comma separated list is... also top choices? Or just the other recordings auditioned?

The first name listed after each opus number is my favorite. If there is a tie, these are grouped by using slashes, then second favorite follows a comma, etc. Only favorites are listed, I have auditioned many more than are listed. For example:

1. Op 2/1 – Fischer/Schnabel - Gulda, Lucchesini, Backhaus(st/m), Nat, Serkin, Richter (Live Moscow, 1979)

Here, my favorite is a tie between Annie Fischer and Schnabel, my second favorite is Gulda (Amadeo/Brilliant), Lucchesini is my third favorite, etc. 

[Brian]

Quite a vote of confidence in the Lucchesini cycle, an artist I had not heard of before.  This is the cycle on Stradivari?

What is the format of the choices here?

You can see a lot of description of Lucchesini in Todd's threads about him over the years, most recently the "shootout" of his new top 10. I bought it when it was still available on CD based on Todd's and George's posts and it's one of my favorites as well. A glowing, warm cycle, not always slow but always prioritizing beauty of touch. Maybe you could say Piano Bruno Walter?

[George]

You can see a lot of description of Lucchesini in Todd's threads about him over the years, most recently the "shootout" of his new top 10. I bought it when it was still available on CD based on Todd's and George's posts and it's one of my favorites as well. A glowing, warm cycle, not always slow but always prioritizing beauty of touch. Maybe you could say Piano Bruno Walter?

Yes, if I were to use one word to describe his Beethoven, it would be beautiful.

[prémont]

@George, Thanks for this survey. I share almost all your faves, but without having counted the precise number I think I have somewhat more faves than you have listed. Except that I don't rank Gulda and Schnabel as highly as you do.

As far as I know there is no Backhaus stereo recording:

29. Op. 106 - "Hammerklavier"  Pollini – Gulda, Fischer, Lucchesini, Solomon, Serkin, Yudina, Nat, Backhaus(st), Kempff(m), Gilels

[George]

@George, Thanks for this survey. I share almost all your faves, but without having counted the precise number I think I have somewhat more faves than you have listed. Except that I don't rank Gulda and Schnabel as highly as you do.

As far as I know there is no Backhaus stereo recording:

Thanks. I will edit that.

[SonicMan46]

Quite a vote of confidence in the Lucchesini cycle, an artist I had not heard of before.  This is the cycle on Stradivari?

What is the format of the choices here?

Lot of interest in Lucchesisi now and in the past - I've had a Spotify playlist for a number of years and have listened several times and enjoyed - HOWEVER, there are applause at the end of each piece which always bothers me but to each his own - if the set is ever re-mastered maybe the clapping can be eliminated -    But for those looking for downloads, Prestomusic has the MP3 at $50+ USD while Qobuz is selling the CD-quality (not sure what formats are offered?) at only $20 USD.  Dave

[Jo498]

I didn't get the fuzz about Lucchesini when I got the box ~20 years ago but I liked it quite a bit when I revisited it 3 or 4 years ago.
$20 for flac downloads sounds o.k. I wouldn't pay > $150 or so for a hard copy, discogs gives 170 EUR as median price, I think I paid at most 50 EUR back then for a used like new set from a guy I knew from online contacts.

As might be expected from live recordings, it's a bit uneven and I find some choices strange (they might be defensible in a live situation). E.g. he plays no repeat in the first sonata's first movement, so this is over in less than 3 min which IMO just makes the movement too slight and destroys the balance of that sonata (that is not great to begin with, the highly concentrated and terse 1st movement is far from the cliched, pianistic "sound and fury" of the last mvmt).

IIRC Lucchesini does well in sonatas I find "difficult", usually the not so well known ones.

[Herman]

Todd's rankings are entirely subjective.  What the various tiers tell you is how close or far a particular performance is from Todd's concept of the ideal performance.  Some are very close, some not so close, some in the middle distance, some nowhere near.  That two performances are both ranked in the same tier does not mean that they sound similar, only that they are situated at similar distances from the ideal, possibly in different directions.

The obvious problem with this ranking system is that only Todd knows what his ideal would sound like, making it pretty meaningless for anyone else.  And to be fair, IIRC Todd freely admits to this.  A more fundamental problem for me is the whole idea that there is a single perfect way to perform a piece of music, from which any departure represents an imperfection.  One of most enjoyable aspects of music is hearing what different performers make of it.

The solution to this self-created problem (who is the ultimate best LvB pianist?) is going to live recitals.

This quest for the ultimate best is a result of audio equipment and the post-1980 CD market with endless options. Ultimately it's about disposible income.

[prémont]

The solution to this self-created problem (who is the ultimate best LvB pianist?) is going to live recitals.

The probability that one of the candidates for that title will visit my place is zero or less.

This quest for the ultimate best is a result of audio equipment and the post-1980 CD market with endless options. Ultimately it's about disposible income.

With the above in mind, one must admit that the CD / download solution is the most obvious. How far one pursues it depends on one's priorities and how much one can afford. I have spent many hours enjoying excellent interpretations of LvB's piano sonatas, and this is what matters to me.

[Florestan]

who is the ultimate best LvB pianist?

The blue unicorn. 

[hopefullytrusting]

The probability that one of the candidates for that title will visit my place is zero or less.

With the above in mind, one must admit that the CD / download solution is the most obvious. How far one pursues it depends on one's priorities and how much one can afford. I have spent many hours enjoying excellent interpretations of LvB's piano sonatas, and this is what matters to me.

And, at least in some cases, the best pianist can only be heard in a specific recording. For instance, the best version of Beethoven's Piano Sonata No. 30 (the sonata I have listened to the most versions of) is Backhaus - 1969 (Firenze), and this is despite me loathing Backhaus as a person (he might have been an asshat, but he was an incredible pianist).

Nothing has even come close to approaching that depth, that warmth - you can feel as if his fingers simply melt into the keys, and it becomes an seamless combination of man/machine - cyborg-ish. (I probably have listened to nearly all the versions of this, including the live ones on YouTube.)

[prémont]

And, at least in some cases, the best pianist can only be heard in a specific recording. For instance, the best version of Beethoven's Piano Sonata No. 30 (the sonata I have listened to the most versions of) is Backhaus - 1969 (Firenze), and this is despite me loathing Backhaus as a person (he might have been an asshat, but he was an incredible pianist).

Nothing has even come close to approaching that depth, that warmth - you can feel as if his fingers simply melt into the keys, and it becomes an seamless combination of man/machine - cyborg-ish. (I probably have listened to nearly all the versions of this, including the live ones on YouTube.)

Backhaus is one of my most favored LvB pianists since long. As I wrote in another forum it was when I inherited one of his complete Beethoven sonata sets that my longtime interest in this music started for good.

Some musicians are/were assh***s, others far from. Usually I don't associate this with their music making. Other than I avoid Valery Gergiev, Valentina Lisitsa and alike.

[hopefullytrusting]

Backhaus is one of my most favored LvB pianists since long. As I wrote in another forum it was when I inherited one of his complete Beethoven sonata sets that my longtime interest in this music started for good.

Some musicians are/were assh***s, others far from. Usually I don't associate this with their music making. Other than I avoid Valery Gergiev, Valentina Lisitsa and alike.

Backhaus is who convinced me that there was something beyond the piano and the pianist that seemed to be affecting the music. I don't know how he got the piano to sound like it did, but only he has been able to do it, at least in regards to this particular piano sonata of Beethoven. Like Arrau, a "similar-ish" pianist, does well, but it is different - more cold, more distant, at least in my opinion, but I'll stop there lest I bring the wrath of the audiophiles on us all, lol.

[Madiel]

The best LvB pianist might have been LvB.

But there comes a point where everyone has to have basic audiophilic standards.

[prémont]

The best LvB pianist might have been LvB.

Not necessarily. But in any case, it's post festum and it's impossible to get to hear him, so we have to make do with what we have - including a number of excellent recordings from the 1930s, where we are happy to ignore the audiophile standard.

[Madiel]

Not necessarily. But in any case, it's post festum and it's impossible to get to hear him, so we have to make do with what we have - including a number of excellent recordings from the 1930s, where we are happy to ignore the audiophile standard.

Well, I'm generally not part of that we until around 1960. Certainly 1950.

[prémont]

Well, I'm generally not part of that we until around 1960. Certainly 1950.

Not that different from me, but both of us have easy access to the important recordings which were made before we were born.