Beethoven's Piano Sonatas

[Ataraxia]

http://musicweb-international.com/

[Todd]

(And true... my review compares HJ Lim to a different Adam... Adam Sandler.)

Surely you don't mean the Adam Sandler from Happy Gilmore.

After all, the recordings you self-appointed luminaries approve all sound the same anyway.

Really?  Russell Sherman and Eric Heidsieck and Wilhelm Kempff and Wilhelm Backhaus and Annie Fischer and Andrea Lucchesini and Claudio Arrau and Emil Gilels and Friedrich Gulda all sound the same?  Based on your statement, I'm guessing you haven't actually heard them.  Please provide an instance where they sound the same.

[Brian]

However, if you're implying that Adam West's "wilfully, deliberately awful" acting is in any way a bad thing, I shall have to ask you to step outside.....

Not at all! It's just, some days you can't get rid of a bomb.

http://www.youtube.com/v/YSZJufHv5kg

Todd, I believe the wording is something like, HJ Lim is like Adam Sandler: it's funny the first couple times, but then you just wish it would go the hell away.

[Sammy]

Oh god, the finale of Oland's Op 27/2 is absolutely killing me. Thing is, though, while Oland is foursquare, drab, and dull, Lim is willfully, delibarately awful.

You've got me interested, so I listened to the finale of the "Moonlight" from Oland, Lim and Guy.  Oland sucks out all the music's excitement through a very slow tempo, episodic treatment and a sub-par technique (very sub-par).  Lim, although sounding like a runaway train, is much more to my liking.  So, I find that Oland doesn't have the chops needed while Lim has the chops but doesn't know what to do with them.  Listening to Guy was most refreshing.

[Fafner]

Really?  Russell Sherman and Eric Heidsieck and Wilhelm Kempff and Wilhelm Backhaus and Annie Fischer and Andrea Lucchesini and Claudio Arrau and Emil Gilels and Friedrich Gulda all sound the same?  Based on your statement, I'm guessing you haven't actually heard them.  Please provide an instance where they sound the same.

Have Kempff (2), Backhaus, Arrau, Gilels, not Sherman, Heidsieck, Fischer, Lucchesini (who's that?) or Gulda.  Have some others, including O'Conor, Lortie, Pommier, Barenboim (EMI), probably some others I can't remember at the moment.  Brendel, I forgot Brendel (Philips, analog), and Brautigam.  Excluding Brautigam (shaping up to be my favorite cycle), I must retreat from my little outburst of hyperole and admit that they are not literally "all the same."  But they vary within a fairly well defined tradition.  In the little samples, at least, Lin sounded like she wanted to do something different, in a willful, sort of foolish way.  Maybe like what Argerich might have done, if she had had the attention span to record a complete cycle of something more extensive than the Chopin Preludes.

Anyway, I'm going to get it.  Can't wait until they release it in the US and the Amazon marketplace sellers start trying to undercut each other on price.

[Sammy]

Well, I've listened to the limited sample available of the set, and they sound fun, in an outlandish sort of way.  And to be honest, the self-important, contemptuous tone with which the recordings are discussed around here makes me quite anxious hear them.  After all, the recordings you self-appointed luminaries approve all sound the same anyway.  Time to hear something a bit different.  Too bad I missed initial offer from amazon.co.uk.  But I'll be looking for a good price on this set. 

You can keep looking for a good price; my perspective is that no price is good enough to have Lim's set gathering dust in my music library.

[Sammy]

However, if you're implying that Adam West's "wilfully, deliberately awful" acting is in any way a bad thing, I shall have to ask you to step outside.....

Thwack away!  Adam West was really bad in that tv series; the only acting I recall that comes close to being as bad comes from Kenneth Branagh in the movie "Peter's Friends".  Saw that one last night, and I must say that he was pathetic (especially as a drunk).

[The new erato]

Thwack away!  Adam West was really bad in that tv series;

You mean; in addition to being stupid enough not to realize that throwing the bomb in the sea would effectievely put out the fuse?

[Brian]

You've got me interested, so I listened to the finale of the "Moonlight" from Oland, Lim and Guy.  Oland sucks out all the music's excitement through a very slow tempo, episodic treatment and a sub-par technique (very sub-par).  Lim, although sounding like a runaway train, is much more to my liking.  So, I find that Oland doesn't have the chops needed while Lim has the chops but doesn't know what to do with them.  Listening to Guy was most refreshing.

Lim has technique to burn, although she does burn right past her fingers' ability to play a couple times in the set (my full notes are at home...). You might want to compare her and Guy's first movements from the "Moonlight" though. (At any rate because Guy's Moonlight adagio is close to my ideal.)

@Fafner: Brautigam's awesome, right? One of my favorite Waldsteins. You sound like a good candidate to enjoy Francois-Frederic Guy.

[Todd]

while Lim has the chops but doesn't know what to do with them.

Bingo.  (Sometimes, though, she doesn't have the technique to deliver her ideas.) 

Guy has it all.  Haven't had a chance to write anything on volume two yet, but when his final installment is released, it could very well be the cycle of the 2010s.

But they vary within a fairly well defined tradition.

Except they don't.  I chose the names on purpose.  Russell Sherman's cycle is, if anything, more eccentric than Lim's, except he has the technique and the artistry to make his vision work.  Gulda's Amadeo cycle is an awesome display of technique and a narrow, unique interpretative approach.  Heidsieck is highly idiosyncratic, as well, but eminently tasteful and perfectly controlled.  Annie Fischer is the go-to for me for intense LvB.  Andrea Lucchesini is a contemporary pianist who records only sporadically, but everything (save a weak, live Brahms 1st) is top flight.  His LvB cycle is one of the most beautiful I've heard.  It very nearly sings.  (Same with his LvB cello sonatas.)

By all means, buy Lim, just don't expect those who can't stand her to say she sounds good.

Again, if you want a good, cheap cycle, there's always Lipkin.  His Op 57, alone, is worth the asking price.

[Sammy]

Have Kempff (2), Backhaus, Arrau, Gilels, not Sherman, Heidsieck, Fischer, Lucchesini (who's that?) or Gulda.  Have some others, including O'Conor, Lortie, Pommier, Barenboim (EMI), probably some others I can't remember at the moment.  Brendel, I forgot Brendel (Philips, analog), and Brautigam.  Excluding Brautigam (shaping up to be my favorite cycle), I must retreat from my little outburst of hyperole and admit that they are not literally "all the same."  But they vary within a fairly well defined tradition.  In the little samples, at least, Lin sounded like she wanted to do something different, in a willful, sort of foolish way.  Maybe like what Argerich might have done, if she had had the attention span to record a complete cycle of something more extensive than the Chopin Preludes.

You're a hoot!  First, you insult some highly knowledgeable GMG members, then you cast dispersions on the attention span of one of the finest pianists alive. 

Not recording complete sets is a perfectly fine way to go for performing artists.  Argerich records what she wants to record; I wouldn't want it any other way.

[George]

Argerich records what she wants to record; I wouldn't want it any other way.

Since that means she records less, I agree. 

[Brian]

First, you insult some highly knowledgeable GMG members, then you cast dispersions on the attention span of one of the finest pianists alive. 

Moreover, based on Lim's way with a lengthy variations movement, saying HJ Lim plays like Argerich would have is a double insult to Argerich's attention span.

[Fafner]

Except they don't.  I chose the names on purpose.  Russell Sherman's cycle is, if anything, more eccentric than Lim's, except he has the technique and the artistry to make his vision work.  Gulda's Amadeo cycle is an awesome display of technique and a narrow, unique interpretative approach.  Heidsieck is highly idiosyncratic, as well, but eminently tasteful and perfectly controlled.  Annie Fischer is the go-to for me for intense LvB.  Andrea Lucchesini is a contemporary pianist who records only sporadically, but everything (save a weak, live Brahms 1st) is top flight.  His LvB cycle is one of the most beautiful I've heard.  It very nearly sings.  (Same with his LvB cello sonatas.)

If you chose those names on purpose, I can only assume it was because they are all out-of-print and unavailable in the US at a non-insane price (except Gulda, and which doesn't appeal to me, base on past experience).

[Fafner]

@Fafner: Brautigam's awesome, right? One of my favorite Waldsteins. You sound like a good candidate to enjoy Francois-Frederic Guy.

Yes, I do like Brautigam.  I started listening from the two ends, and have not gotten to the middle yet, so I haven't heard the Wallenstein.  I'll have to look up this Guy guy.

[Todd]

If you chose those names on purpose, I can only assume it was because they are all out-of-print and unavailable in the US at a non-insane price (except Gulda, and which doesn't appeal to me, base on past experience).

You assume incorrectly.  I chose them because of their quality.  I've posted about cycles for years, and when I posted they were all readily available.  I'm not certain about current availability in all cases - I don't follow recordings I already own - but the Gulda is available, and Heidsieck's is out there in a couple different guises.  Annie Fisher's is sporadically available.  It may be a good idea for you to check Europe and Japan for some discs.  Just because something isn't available in the US doesn't mean it's not available.

[Lilas Pastia]

Why on earth would you guys fistfight over interpretations that seem to be out of the botbotbottom drawer I suppose I missed the first chapter...

Todd, what do you think of Paul Lewis' Beethoven. Sorry if I didn't check back pages of the thread, I'm just starting to get reacquainted with all these discussions after an absence of a fee months.

[Fafner]

You assume incorrectly.  I chose them because of their quality.  I've posted about cycles for years, and when I posted they were all readily available.  I'm not certain about current availability in all cases - I don't follow recordings I already own - but the Gulda is available, and Heidsieck's is out there in a couple different guises.  Annie Fisher's is sporadically available.  It may be a good idea for you to check Europe and Japan for some discs.  Just because something isn't available in the US doesn't mean it's not available.

I did find that Russell Sherman set for $239.47, condition only "good." 

I spit on HJ Lim's Beethoven set.  Phew!  Are we at peace now?  If you want you can send me your copy of her set so I can personally disrespect it.

[Todd]

Todd, what do you think of Paul Lewis' Beethoven. Sorry if I didn't check back pages of the thread, I'm just starting to get reacquainted with all these discussions after an absence of a fee months.

In general, I find it rather too predictable and somewhat dull.  That written, his 106 is one of the best out there, and there are a few other good interpretations in the cycle.  The entire cycle is in SOTA sound, as well.

I spit on HJ Lim's Beethoven set.  Phew!  Are we at peace now?  If you want you can send me your copy of her set so I can personally disrespect it.

Huh? 

At least I've listened to 7/8ths of it.  How about you?

[Fafner]

At least I've listened to 7/8ths of it.  How about you?

Listened to approximately 1/200th of it.  Sounds great so far!