Beethoven's Piano Sonatas

[Bogey]

I will photo copy the booklet and mail them to ya!

Thankee, Paul.

[eumyang]

Indeed.  Perhaps he ends his cycle with Op 49?  He started with the last works, after all, so why not end with the first?

This reminded me of another post (maybe in this thread) where someone stated that among the 32 the Op. 49 were written first. My understanding is that among the 32 the Op. 2 were written first, by the Spring of 1795. Op. 49/2 may have been written between Op. 2 and Op. 7, around 1795-96. Op. 49/1 was later, around 1797, placing it before Op. 7, after Op. 7, or even during the composition of Op. 10.

[Todd]

This reminded me of another post (maybe in this thread) where someone stated that among the 32 the Op. 49 were written first. My understanding is that among the 32 the Op. 2 were written first, by the Spring of 1795. Op. 49/2 may have been written between Op. 2 and Op. 7, around 1795-96. Op. 49/1 was later, around 1797, placing it before Op. 7, after Op. 7, or even during the composition of Op. 10.

I'll let scholars have the final word, but my understanding is that Op 49 were written around 1792.

[kishnevi]

I'll let scholars have the final word, but my understanding is that Op 49 were written around 1792.

Quick check of three cycles whose liner notes deal with the subject
Brendel III--compositional history unknown,  but probably written c. 1792
Paul Lewis--written as pedagogical works c. 1796-7
Andras Schiff--written as pedagogical works, compositional history unknown, written 1796-7 (the track listing is more definite than the liner notes)

[Opus106]

This reminded me of another post (maybe in this thread) where someone stated that among the 32 the Op. 49 were written first. My understanding is that among the 32 the Op. 2 were written first, by the Spring of 1795. Op. 49/2 may have been written between Op. 2 and Op. 7, around 1795-96. Op. 49/1 was later, around 1797, placing it before Op. 7, after Op. 7, or even during the composition of Op. 10.

Schiff followed the chronological order of composition during his lecture series.

[Disclaimer: I'm not a scholar.]

[kishnevi]

Schiff followed the chronological order of composition during his lecture series.

[Disclaimer: I'm not a scholar.]

The individual CDs of the Schiff cycle also follow in roughly chronological order:  the Op. 49 sonatas therefore appear as the first two sonatas in Vol. III,  followed by the two sonatas of Op. 14 and by Op. 22.

[eumyang]

I'm not a scholar either, but I do have an interest in things musicological.  So I decided to do a quick search.

I found a Wikipedia article "1792 in Music" where Op. 49 is listed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1792_in_music), but there was no source given.  There are also other websites (Youtube, a blog, a sheet music site, etc.) that list 1792 as the year of composition.

The Thayer-Forbes biography assigns the years 1795-96 to Op. 49/2, and 1798 to Op. 49/1.

Giovanni Biamonti compiled a catalog of Beethoven's works.  Here are the relevant entries:
Bia. 87 = Op. 2 (1793-95)
Bia. 120 = Op. 49/2 (1795-96)
Bia. 136 = Op. 7 (1796-97)
Bia. 157 = Op. 10 (1795-97)
Bia. 170 = Op. 49/1 (1797)

I have Barry Cooper's The Beethoven Compendium, but I am out of the country and cannot look it up, so I'm going by memory.  But I'm pretty sure that Cooper lists Beethoven's works first by genre and then by chronological order, and I'm pretty sure that he lists Op. 49 after Op. 2.

According to the liner notes from Idil Biret's Beethoven Edition:

Both the sonatas that form Opus 49 were probably started in 1796 and completed by 1797–8. Although they are described as 'Easy Sonatas', much care has to be taken in performance. Beethoven held them back for publication in 1802, but they did not appear in print until three years later. Gustav Nottebohm verifies that they were finished before the "Pathétique" Sonata Op. 13 and the String Trio, Op. 9, No. 3, and certainly Beethoven's only full-scale Sonata for four hands in D major, Op. 6, appeared during this period.

Of course, none of this is really conclusive.

[david-jw]

I fervently wish Pollini would re-record the Op 109/110/111- I was lucky enough to see him perform them 18 months ago and it would be wonderful to have a recorded legacy of how he approaches them now.

[eumyang]

I have Barry Cooper's The Beethoven Compendium, but I am out of the country and cannot look it up, so I'm going by memory.  But I'm pretty sure that Cooper lists Beethoven's works first by genre and then by chronological order, and I'm pretty sure that he lists Op. 49 after Op. 2.

Because I wasn't sure that my memory about this was correct, I took a chance and emailed Prof. Cooper directly.  This is what he said:

There's not much evidence available for the dating of these two sonatas, but it appears that Op. 49/2 was composed shortly before Op. 7 and Op. 49/1 shortly after Op. 7, probably about a year after No. 2.

I have Goode's Beethoven cycle as mp3 files (ripped from a CD set that I own) on my phone, and (because I'm weird) I just reordered the tracks into chronological order, more or less: 1, 2, 3, 20, 19, 4, 5, ...

[Brian]

Sequeira Costa Vol. II just arrived in my mailbox from my editors at MusicWeb.

Timings for the curious:

Waldstein
11:41
3:36
10:44

Appassionata
10:41
5:27
8:32

No. 27, Op. 90
5:34
7:38

[Todd]

Sequeira Costa Vol. II just arrived in my mailbox from my editors at MusicWeb.

Back to the 90s!  It's been years since I listened to the disc, so perhaps I should revisit soon.  I also have the disc with Opp 10 and 13, but the sound has phase issues - it sounded better played back in mono.

[The new erato]

Hungeford's set is available VERY cheap on Piano Classics on mdt:

http://www.mdt.co.uk/beethoven-piano-sonatas-the-beethoven-bruce-hungerford-piano-classics-5cds.html

[Holden]

Hungeford's set is available VERY cheap on Piano Classics on mdt:

http://www.mdt.co.uk/beethoven-piano-sonatas-the-beethoven-bruce-hungerford-piano-classics-5cds.html

I have this set on the original Vanguard. It is my favourite incomplete set and I rank it above Gilels, Richter, etc in this regard. I wonder if there is any sonic gain with the new set but would urge anyone who hasn't heard Hungerford's LvB to take a listen. He thought very deeply about the music and a lot of it sounds quite fresh. As a Schnabel pupil he has an excellent pedigree and it's a tragedy that a drunk driver took his life before he completed the set.

[PaulSC]

Robert Silverman's 1999 (2000?) Beethoven sonatas cycle on Orpheum Masters, highly praised by Todd among others, but unavailable for some years now, is being reissued as a series of digital downloads. The two volumes released so far have appeared at several online stores including Amazon and iTunes, but CDBaby might be the most attractive option, since a $9.99 purchase there gets you FLAC files in addition to mp3s. It's not a cheap way to acquire the whole cycle, and it apparently won't get you the original liner notes with Silverman's well-regarded commentary on each work. Still, better than nothing.



Todd's review in the old Good Music Guide Forum

Silverman's website with details of reissue plans

Silverman's blog with notes on his forthcoming second cycle, recorded live during a series of 2010 recitals in San Jose, California.

[Opus106]

As a Schnabel pupil...

Was he a direct one? Neither the description at MDT nor the Wiki bio mention Schnabel.

[Fred]

I see that EL BACHA is about to put out another complete beethoven set on Mirare. It's already on amazon.

[Holden]

Was he a direct one? Neither the description at MDT nor the Wiki bio mention Schnabel.

...and I can't find a link online either though something at the back of my mind has a connection between Schnabel and Hungerford.

[mc ukrneal]

...and I can't find a link online either though something at the back of my mind has a connection between Schnabel and Hungerford.

Was it possible you had him confused with another pianist, "His [Schnabel's] students included Clifford Curzon, Rudolf Firkušný, Lili Kraus, Leonard Shure, Claude Frank, and Leon Fleisher."

[Todd]

I see that EL BACHA is about to put out another complete beethoven set on Mirare. It's already on amazon.

I wonder if this is a new cycle, or a repackaging of the old cycle.  The last thing I need is to get another copy of El Bacha's first go-round.

[Brian]

My review of Steven Masi, Vol. I, is up on MusicWeb. It has ups and downs:

"Best is the famous Pathétique, strong of spine and lyrical too, with some of Masi's idiosyncrasies - take the rhythms of the introduction, or the clear accompaniment in the adagio's central passages - perking up my ears. I'm pretty jaded about this piece, have heard it too many times, but Masi brought back my interest and curiosity and gave me greater pleasure than any performance has in years.
 
"On the other hand, the Pastoral sonata begins so slowly that Masi manages to be both eccentric and pedantic at the same time. Depending on the passage, the tempo can be breathtaking or dull, but it's possible to achieve glowing lyricism at far faster speeds.... The first movement of the tiny gem No. 25 (Op. 79) has a similarly heavy tread, which is a shame, because the rest of Masi's performance is more or less impeccable.

"The sound quality is a little boxy and studio-bound, with some very fine playing in the Pathétique spoiled by glassy treble - and at 3:26 in that sonata's adagio, a loud click. This is one of two Beethoven sonata CDs to arrive in my listening pile this summer from recording engineer Joseph Patrych, and the other (with pianist Beth Levin) was much worse. There's an executive producer named David Strathairn, and I wonder if this is the same David Strathairn who is an Oscar-nominated actor: Good Night and Good Luck, Lincoln. They've been in the same room together, at least; Strathairn narrated a multimedia program about the life of Robert Schumann, and news reports on the event mention that Masi was in the audience."
http://musicweb-international.com/classrev/2013/Sept13/Beethoven_sonatas_Masi.htm