Beethoven's Piano Sonatas

[Cato]

Did Rachmaninov record any of the Beethoven sonatas?  I cannot find a reference to any, except for a Beethoven piano and violin sonata recorded with Fritz Kreisler.

[Ken B]

I listened to Oland on youtube a bit. Sounded like a grudge match.

[aquablob]

Just sampled Op. 22 and I've noticed the same pattern. It's like she's interpreting staccato marks as accents. To be fair, Beethoven did distinguish between "dot" staccato and "vertical-line" staccato, and probably the "vertical-line" type was indeed meant to be slightly accented and not quite as short as the "dot" type (although this is a controversial topic)... but what Øland is doing goes beyond that. Her default dynamic level seems to be an aggressive forte, and at times it seems that every other beat or so is accented. It's bizarre. She leaves herself little room to build intensity or highlight it once she's there. Sforzandos at ff sound almost no different from accents in "softer" passages.

Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjPuokenCyo

[aquablob]

Indeed! This, on the other hand, is pathétique indeed. 

Speaking of Op. 13, Brautigam was eye-opening here for me.

[Holden]

Did Rachmaninov record any of the Beethoven sonatas?  I cannot find a reference to any, except for a Beethoven piano and violin sonata recorded with Fritz Kreisler.

Unfortunately no. I say unfortunately because they were in his concert repertoire and he wanted to record them. However,  a certain producer at RCA didn't reckon they would sell.

[Cato]

Unfortunately no. I say unfortunately because they were in his concert repertoire and he wanted to record them. However,  a certain producer at RCA didn't reckon they would sell.

Wow!  What a loss!  Many thanks for the information.

[Holden]

Speaking of Op. 13, Brautigam was eye-opening here for me.

...and me. I was trying to imagine what the first movement, as played by Brautigam, would sound like on a modern piano and I suspect that it would not be good. However, it works so wonderfully well on this instrument.

[Mandryka]

Just to add to what Mandryka is talking about, we discussed this topic back on p. 126 of this thread, where we brought up Robert Winter's essay that compares recordings of Op. 111 in terms of tempo fluctuation between variations. Read from the bottom of page 41 through page 46 here if you're interested: http://books.google.com/books?id=rfESTJIEYaUC&pg=PA41

Two pianists who seem to maintain a very stable background pulse in op 111/ii are Tom Beghin and Sofronitsky (1952.). I think, I don't really trust my own judgement about this.

[Todd]

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A couple upcoming releases.  I've made it through all of Ehlen's discs so far, so I might as well go for volume 7, and Ms Ugorskaja is going for some good 'uns.  A new cycle, one hopes?


[EDIT]  Looks like Ms Ugorskaja, Anatol Ugorski's daughter, already recorded 106 and 111.  May have to sample both at the same time.

[amw]

For some reason the other day I had the odd desire to compare a bunch of Hammerklaviers on NML in search of a good first movement. I'm not generally a fan of any 106/i much over 10 minutes, but almost every recording I found took it at a very broad tempo—Schnabel, Gieseking & Korstick's tempi are much better, but the first two don't have technique or sound quality on their side, whereas Korstick (while his fast movements are pretty much ideal tempo-wise) oddly plays the slow movement about twice as slow as it should be.

So any suggestions from our resident Beethoven collectors?

This is a very basic outline of the sort of thing I was hoping to find—
First movement - 8'-9' (with expo repeat), crisply articulated.
Second movement - 2'-2'30, a certain degree of insanity is desirable
Third movement - Not 29', or for that matter 12' (hello HJ Lim). Otherwise, so long as there's poetry and soul and that kind of thing, I'm flexible
Last movement - 11' ish, but this is a tough one, so if all the notes are there in the right order I can live with slower tempi

[aquablob]

For some reason the other day I had the odd desire to compare a bunch of Hammerklaviers on NML in search of a good first movement. I'm not generally a fan of any 106/i much over 10 minutes, but almost every recording I found took it at a very broad tempo—Schnabel, Gieseking & Korstick's tempi are much better, but the first two don't have technique or sound quality on their side, whereas Korstick (while his fast movements are pretty much ideal tempo-wise) oddly plays the slow movement about twice as slow as it should be.

So any suggestions from our resident Beethoven collectors?

This is a very basic outline of the sort of thing I was hoping to find—
First movement - 8'-9' (with expo repeat), crisply articulated.
Second movement - 2'-2'30, a certain degree of insanity is desirable
Third movement - Not 29', or for that matter 12' (hello HJ Lim). Otherwise, so long as there's poetry and soul and that kind of thing, I'm flexible
Last movement - 11' ish, but this is a tough one, so if all the notes are there in the right order I can live with slower tempi

Friedrich Gulda?

[kishnevi]

Heidsieck almost meets your requirements--except of course in the movement you're most interested in.

Timings are  11.34/2.35/18.20/11.28

[amw]

Friedrich Gulda?

Yes, might be what I'm looking for. 9'28 is a little conservative (if Beethoven's metronome markings are followed exactly the timing should be ~7'55 plus rits and fermatas—8'30 to 8'45 is a realistic minimum) but his playing does sound very strong from what I've heard, sort of like what Schnabel was trying to do. I'll keep an ear out.

[Mandryka]

For some reason the other day I had the odd desire to compare a bunch of Hammerklaviers on NML in search of a good first movement. I'm not generally a fan of any 106/i much over 10 minutes, but almost every recording I found took it at a very broad tempo—Schnabel, Gieseking & Korstick's tempi are much better, but the first two don't have technique or sound quality on their side, whereas Korstick (while his fast movements are pretty much ideal tempo-wise) oddly plays the slow movement about twice as slow as it should be.

So any suggestions from our resident Beethoven collectors?

This is a very basic outline of the sort of thing I was hoping to find—
First movement - 8'-9' (with expo repeat), crisply articulated.
Second movement - 2'-2'30, a certain degree of insanity is desirable
Third movement - Not 29', or for that matter 12' (hello HJ Lim). Otherwise, so long as there's poetry and soul and that kind of thing, I'm flexible
Last movement - 11' ish, but this is a tough one, so if all the notes are there in the right order I can live with slower tempi

Try Hans Richter-Haaser and Kempff (mono) and Beveridge Webster (I can let you have the files)

[aquablob]

Yes, might be what I'm looking for. 9'28 is a little conservative (if Beethoven's metronome markings are followed exactly the timing should be ~7'55 plus rits and fermatas—8'30 to 8'45 is a realistic minimum) but his playing does sound very strong from what I've heard, sort of like what Schnabel was trying to do. I'll keep an ear out.

Gulda's probably my favorite in Op. 106. He plays with great clarity and momentum in the outer movements.

[Todd]

Friedrich Gulda?

Robert Taub is the only other name that comes to mind that meets all the criteria.  I haven't heard it since it is download only at the present time, but he's pretty quick throughout.  From what I have heard from Taub, I can't see him besting Gulda, but maybe.

[Sergeant Rock]

Third movement - Not 29', or for that matter 12' (hello HJ Lim).

But her Adagio is so nice for those times when you must hear a Hammerklavier but just don't have all day to sit through a normally paced performance 

Looking at Hammerklaviers I own, I come to the same conclusion as others: Gulda is the only one who comes close to meeting your requirements.

Korstick                   9:08  2:24  28:42  11:09
Gulda                      9:30  2:20  13:44  11:23
Solomon                10:08  2:30  22:20  12:37
HJ Lim                    10:24  2:43  12:50  11:23
Guy                       10:38  2:49  17:03  12:55
Rosen                    10:40  2:28  18:23  11:48
Pollini                     10:44  2:42  17:11  12:14
Arrau                     10:48  2:30  20:26  11:43
Annie Fischer          11:01  2:53  19:51  11:25
Gould                    11:03  2:48  20:42  13:33
Backhaus               11:45  2:38  16:32  11:01
Gilels                     12:24  2:53  19:51  13:38
Barenboim (EMI)     13:13  3:04  21:52  12:50

Sarge

[Mandryka]

Richter Haaser        8:49  2:40  17:04  11:11
Kempff (mono)        8:54  2:41  15:21  11:47
Bev. Webster          8:50  2:23  18:25  10:52

[Todd]

Kempff (mono)        8:54  2:41  15:21  11:47

Kempff omits the repeat in the first movement.  I'll have to revisit Richter Haaser, because my memory of his playing is that he doesn't play fast, indicating that he omits it, too.

[Mandryka]

Kempff omits the repeat in the first movement.

Taub sounds very very good you know. I'm listening to it for the first time right now.