Beethoven's Piano Sonatas

[Brian]

So far I have listened to the first 17 sonatas painstakingly.  It seems to me that Op.31, No.1 is the weakest among them, and I am yet to find a convincing recording of this work.  Any suggestions?

Perhaps you must remember that the slow movement of Op. 31 No. 1 is a parody - in fact, the whole sonata is very slyly witty, until the ending, which to me is slapstick. It's one of my favorites, and the recording which got me to loving it was Gilels (DG), though there is no shortage of great ones.

[jlaurson]

I am not a fan of Pristine's work. What I have heard (about a dozen transfers) always sounds filtered and unnatural.

True that. They have their hack-shill at Fanfare, but that's about it.

[Bogey]

True that. They have their hack-shill at Fanfare, but that's about it.

Sorry for the off topic post:


There is an "acoustic" Stokowski that looks tempting.  Is this the only recording out there of these works?

http://www.pristineclassical.com/pasc192.html

[Mandryka]

So far I have listened to the first 17 sonatas painstakingly.  It seems to me that Op.31, No.1 is the weakest among them, and I am yet to find a convincing recording of this work.  Any suggestions?

I think that before you dismiss this sonata you should try a recording on a suitable fortepiano, if you haven't already done so. Paul Badura Skoda for example. On modern piano, I think Gould is interesting because he plays up the comedy, and he's light and fast.

Perhaps you must remember that the slow movement of Op. 31 No. 1 is a parody

A parody of what?

[aquablob]

On Op. 31/1/ii as parody of Italian opera, see pp. 8ff. of this article: http://bf.press.illinois.edu/view.php?vol=13&iss=1&f=hatten.pdf

[rondos]

Thanks guys for all the comments and suggestions on Op.31 No.1.  I do realize the comedic nature of this work and the second movement as a parody of an Italian opera.  It's just that the first two recordings that I listened to do not seem to show the structure of the work very clearly, especially in the third movement.  I will try a few more recordings, including Gilels. 

[aquablob]

Thanks guys for all the comments and suggestions on Op.31 No.1.  I do realize the comedic nature of this work and the second movement as a parody of an Italian opera.  It's just that the first two recordings that I listened to do not seem to show the structure of the work very clearly, especially in the third movement.  I will try a few more recordings, including Gilels.

Just remember: you're obligated to like it. 

I distinctly recall Op. 31/1 and Op. 2/2 taking me several listens to really enjoy. For Op. 31/1, I think Brendel and Schiff do a fine job bringing out the humor. Also, Gulda's crisp playing in the outer movements is worth hearing if you dig his style. And actually Gould is rather fun in this sonata (bizarre, but fun).

[amw]

I still don't like Op. 2/1, 2/3 or 49 much. I'm sort of on the fence about the Waldstein.

As for 31/1 I always find the finale disappointingly conventional (apart from the coda, which is brilliant).

[Mandryka]

31/1 does seem not his best work to me. God, he certainly milks the tunes does Beethoven -- it must be one of the most repetitious sonatas ever. And that middle movement, for all it's beguiling at first, outstays it's welcome. The whole sonata's too long. It needs someone to give it a good hard pruning.

Beethoven is often repetitious, think of the first movement of the Waldstein. Of course it may partly be that the pianists who play Beethoven are less imaginative about hiw to deal with repetition than baroque keyboard players.

The sonata I've had the biggest problem with is 10/2 -- that's why I was very glad to find Grinberg's recently.

[Mandryka]

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Ogdon's 106 was a recording I'd been wanting to hear for a good number of years, and now I can say I heard it.  Unfortunately, it did not live up to my expectations.  His tempo choices are mostly conventional, which is fine, and he plays the opening movement in big, bold fashion, which is good, and he brings out some details here and there, especially in the second movement quite unlike anyone else, but the slow movement didn't work for me, and the fugue is odd in that at times it sounds like Ogdon is close to his technical limits, only to then let loose and rip through some passages.  He clearly plays for effect.  It ends up being a middle of the road quality performance for me.  The highlight of the disc ends up being the Nielsen pieces, which Ogdon plays exceptionally well.

I was also disappointed in a way. It doesn't come alive in the way I'd been hoping.  I say "in a way" because I actually knew what it was like because I'd heard it on youtube, but I was hoping the improved sound would be revealing of something. The fugue has stuck in my mind as something to go back to sometime. It made me think of a discussion I was in here with someone here about op 133 and they said they wanted it to be played classically, with restraint and lyricism -- and then when asked for an example they came up with a piano transcription. But you may be right when you say he rips through some passages, you know the music better than me I expect.

[Brian]

My jumbo-size review of new Beethoven albums by Jean-Efflam Bavouzet, Jonathan Biss, James Brawn, Inna Faliks, Steven Masi, and Maria Perrotta is now online. (The editors inserted a couple typos. Grr, argh. What are editors for?) Quick summary: Perrotta and Brawn recommended to all; Bavouzet and Biss recommended to those with certain tastes; Faliks an artist to watch; Masi hamstrung by bad sound.

Some of you are quoted in this review, since you partook in the Waldstein blind listening game!

[Holden]

Listening to Gilels on the Brilliant Box and making comparisons to the sonatas he performs on these to those he made for DG. Just finished with his live Hammerklavier from 1984 and this is head and shoulders above his studio performance that has garnered so many good reviews. Every sonata from the Brilliant box seems better and of course there is that wonderful disc of 8, 14 and 23 recorded live in Moscow at the beginning of the 60s. Does anyone else feel that these performances are superior?

The following sonatas are included: 7, 8, 12, 14 16, 23, 25, 26, 27 and 29. I also have recordings of 21 and 28 that aren't DG. Are there others out there?

[Todd]

Every sonata from the Brilliant box seems better...Does anyone else feel that these performances are superior?

I've not heard the recordings on Brilliant, but now I think I should . . .

[George]

I've not heard the recordings on Brilliant, but now I think I should . . .

You definitely should.

[George]

Listening to Gilels on the Brilliant Box and making comparisons to the sonatas he performs on these to those he made for DG. Just finished with his live Hammerklavier from 1984 and this is head and shoulders above his studio performance that has garnered so many good reviews. Every sonata from the Brilliant box seems better and of course there is that wonderful disc of 8, 14 and 23 recorded live in Moscow at the beginning of the 60s. Does anyone else feel that these performances are superior?

Absolutely!

[Mandryka]

Listening to Gilels on the Brilliant Box and making comparisons to the sonatas he performs on these to those he made for DG. Just finished with his live Hammerklavier from 1984 and this is head and shoulders above his studio performance that has garnered so many good reviews. Every sonata from the Brilliant box seems better and of course there is that wonderful disc of 8, 14 and 23 recorded live in Moscow at the beginning of the 60s. Does anyone else feel that these performances are superior?

I prefer the 1984 Hammerklavier.

The following sonatas are included: 7, 8, 12, 14 16, 23, 25, 26, 27 and 29. I also have recordings of 21 and 28 that aren't DG. Are there others out there?

I like the Beethoven op 26 here very much, from 1978



While we're talking live Gilels, there's a recital from October 10 1961 in Moscow which is contained in one of the Art of Emil Gilels boxes, with  the Liszt sonata and the Chopin B flat minor sonata. It is well worth hearing.



That series, Art of Emil Gilels, contains some other Beethoven sonatas, but I haven't checked whether they're the same as Brilliant's.

[Todd]

Looks like HJ Lim is no longer the youngest pianist to record a complete sonata cycle.  Melodie Zhao's set is slated for release next month on the fine Claves label.  Currently it seems only MP3 files are available for pre-order, though I'm guessing CDs will be available. 

[Todd]

Listened to Dina Ugorskaja's second LvB disc a couple times, which contains the rest of the late sonatas, and much like her disc of 106 and 111, the playing is personal but not too idiosyncratic, clear, with superb quiet playing.  I rather hope she records more Beethoven, but even if she does not, between her Beethoven, Schumann, and Handel, she's a pianist I eagerly want to hear more from.

[G. String]

Listening to Gilels on the Brilliant Box and making comparisons to the sonatas he performs on these to those he made for DG. Just finished with his live Hammerklavier from 1984 and this is head and shoulders above his studio performance that has garnered so many good reviews. Every sonata from the Brilliant box seems better and of course there is that wonderful disc of 8, 14 and 23 recorded live in Moscow at the beginning of the 60s. Does anyone else feel that these performances are superior?

The following sonatas are included: 7, 8, 12, 14 16, 23, 25, 26, 27 and 29. I also have recordings of 21 and 28 that aren't DG. Are there others out there?

I don't know how to thank for this post. I had the Russian Legends set for a long time and it was cast behind other boxes, gathering dust, untouched. I'm a fan of the sonatas and now I feel like I've discovered one of the best performances ever recorded. The tempi, articulation, the piano, the flow, everything is as I want them to be. The audience noise and cough is a joy-killer for me though. I wish someone could clean those noises. Thanks again anyway...and to whoever recommended Liszt's Via Crucis, too. Never heard that before.

[Mandryka]

I know what you mean about the ornamentation, but I found it only mildly annoying at times.  Still, I wonder why Jumppanen thought his "moves" to be advantageous.

Well there's a fair amount of repetition in the music.

I thought the op2s were nice - especiallly the rubato. I only knew his Boulez before so thanks for pointing out this interesting recording to me.