Beethoven's Piano Sonatas

[Mateus]

MATEUS - Many many thanks.  Will order.

You are welcome. It's good that this set is not as expensive as most other Asian sets...

[Fred]

TODD - I know it's off topic (apologies), but you've made reference to Pietro Di Maria's chopin elsewhere on this forum.   The complete box set is now available on amazon UK for a steal.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Chopin-Pietro-Maria/dp/B00N29UQZA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1421889769&sr=8-1&keywords=PIETRO+MARIA+CHOPIN

[Todd]

TODD - I know it's off topic (apologies), but you've made reference to Pietro Di Maria's chopin elsewhere on this forum.   The complete box set is now available on amazon UK for a steal.

It's even cheaper at Amazon Italy.  I have about half the discs.  I'm pondering.

[André]

Why would it be of interest ? I've never heard of/read about him. Tod, please explain !

[jlaurson]

Beethoven Sonatas - A Survey of Complete Cycles
Part 9, 2014 - onward


Updated with Melodie Zhao.

[Todd]

My copy of Younwha Lee's LvB cycle arrived from Korea today.  G Market showed up as eBay on my Visa - I guess the latter bought the former in 2009.  (Too much competition, perhaps?)  Whoever sent me the discs overdid it on the packaging, stuffing one small box in a large box, so the set arrived in perfect shape.  The two boxes are large clamshell types, each containing five single discs in old-fashioned cases.  Almost all notes are in Korean, but the brief English bio states that Ms Lee studied at the University of Washington and Juilliard, and counts Ania Dorfman among her teachers.  I thought the recordings would be new, or at least new-ish, but it turns out that Ms Lee started recording the cycle in 1994.  The last year included in volume two lists 1999, but the last few discs don't include dates.  Volume one was recorded in Japan, and volume two was recorded in Australia.  The first disc is a standard named sonata affair - 31/2, 53, 57 - and then from there it is mixed.  A quick spot check revealed good sound and playing, but 45 seconds total from six movements does not indicate much.  Once I wrap up Houstoun's new cycle, I'm on to this, maybe as an A/B with Pienaar.

[Oldnslow]

Todd, be interested in your comments on the Houstoun set, which I have ordered from Presto. His interviews about the sonatas, kindly posted by a link by Fred, are very interesting and I look forward to hearing his take on Beethoven.

[jlaurson]

Dear Todd,

thanks much for the information re: Younwha Lee and the note that Houstuon has a new cycle. It just never stops!





Beethoven Sonatas - A Survey of Complete Cycles
Part 9, 2014 - onward


Updated with Daniel-Ben Pienaar & Melodie Zhao.

***




Beethoven Sonatas - A Survey of Complete Cycles
Part 8, 2010 - 2013


Updated with Michael Houstoun II.


***




Beethoven Sonatas - A Survey of Complete Cycles
Part 5, 1996 - 1999


Updated with Younwha Lee .

[Mandryka]

I wonder what the P&L looks like for some of these compete Beethoven sets, maybe you don't need to sell many to break even. There can't be many people who actually buy them.

[jlaurson]

I wonder what the P&L looks like for some of these compete Beethoven sets, maybe you don't need to sell many to break even. There can't be many people who actually buy them.

That depends on how you account for subsidies and P & L for whom. Label or artist.

If, for example, they are recorded for broadcast and the artist or label gets the rights to issue them for little or nothing (and you don't calculate the radio station's investment), the cost is down considerably... the rest of which is probably covered by the artist to some degree, if not entirely. Most record labels operate on some version of that principle by now.

[Mandryka]

And is that the model with many of these recordings?  The cost of production effectively passed on to a radio station, who presumably recover their expenses with advertising or state subsidies.

Presumably manufacturing and distribution costs are peanuts these days. And I suppose publicity costs are kept at a minimum for these lesser pianists. Still, I know how things can mount up and you have to ask, what's the point? Especially when the artistic value is not so important. Sounds like a lot of effort for not much return to me.

Do you have a Profit and Loss account for a Beethoven set you can let us see?

[jlaurson]

And is that the model with many of these recordings?  The cost of production effectively passed on to a radio station, who presumably recover their expenses with advertising or state subsidies.

Presumably manufacturing and distribution costs are peanuts these days. And I suppose publicity costs are kept at a minimum for these lesser pianists. Still, I know how things can mount up and you have to ask, what's the point? Especially when the artistic value is not so important. Sounds like a lot of effort for not much return to me.

Do you have a Profit and Loss account for a Beethoven set you can let us see?

I don't, as you would have define P&L very specifically, before getting at it. Do you mean the labels or the artists?

Let's just say: The labels won't issue it, if they can't break even. [Break even before they start selling any copies, ideally.]
And the artists wouldn't finance it (and many do, I reckon, especially where they don't have the benefit of getting recording cost (substantial even for taped live performances) subsidized by a radio station or concert venue, if they didn't think it would make a decent enough business card. (Which is essentially what it is... [with hints of vanity, perhaps]. As HJ Lim shows us: you can still make a PR splash with a complete recording; I'm sure other pianists hope for the same. It's one way to garner reviews, for starters.

[Todd]

I wonder what the P&L looks like for some of these compete Beethoven sets, maybe you don't need to sell many to break even. There can't be many people who actually buy them.

Some cycles may not necessarily be meant to make a profit.  Houstoun's new cycle was at least partly funded by the Wallace Arts Trust, and his first one was at least partly funded by the Morrison Music Trust.  I've seen various national Arts councils/ministries/etc mentioned in the notes for several esoteric cycles.  Ikuyo Nakamichi's cycle appears to have been funded by Union Tool Company.  Rita Bouboulidi's cycle appears to be a privately funded affair.  HJ Lim is repeatedly described as a Yamaha exclusive artist, so it would not be surprising if Yamaha threw in a few bucks.  I can't imagine these projects are significantly profitable for years, or even decades, if at all.  These projects do have reputational value, too, which may or may not play into the decision to record them.

[Mandryka]

Some cycles may not necessarily be meant to make a profit.  Houstoun's new cycle was at least partly funded by the Wallace Arts Trust, and his first one was at least partly funded by the Morrison Music Trust.  I've seen various national Arts councils/ministries/etc mentioned in the notes for several esoteric cycles.  Ikuyo Nakamichi's cycle appears to have been funded by Union Tool Company.  Rita Bouboulidi's cycle appears to be a privately funded affair.  HJ Lim is repeatedly described as a Yamaha exclusive artist, so it would not be surprising if Yamaha threw in a few bucks.  I can't imagine these projects are significantly profitable for years, or even decades, if at all.  These projects do have reputational value, too, which may or may not play into the decision to record them.

State funding for recordings of very mainstream classical music is an intersting phenomenon I hadn't thought about before. It would also be interesting to know the logic the Union Tool Company applied.

Oh and I meant the label's P and L, Jens. I do hope that vanity publishing isn't a major force. I want to hear the artists who are doing interesting things, not the rich kids who can afford to take a punt on a release.

[Todd]

It would also be interesting to know the logic the Union Tool Company applied.

I've tried to figure that one out.  It would be easier if I read Japanese, I suppose.  Whatever the relationship, it is a long term one.  Ms Nakamichi's website links to Union Tool, and Union Tool's website links to Ms Nakamichi's.  The company's motto, or at least one motto, is For Humanity, For the Future.  Could be that the company adheres to expansive views of good governance and good corporate citizenship.  But then, for all I know, Ms Nakamichi could be the wife, daughter, or relative of a mucky muck at the company.  The relationship also contributed to her very fine Mozart sonata cycle, so whatever the relationship is, it has made my ears happy.

Oh, and I am pretty sure that most prominent, professional pianists come from privileged backgrounds.  Not necessarily Eric Heidsieck levels of privilege, but relatively few seem to come from slums or even poorly educated, lower-middle class homes.

[jlaurson]

State funding for recordings of very mainstream classical music is an intersting phenomenon I hadn't thought about before. It would also be interesting to know the logic the Union Tool Company applied.

Oh and I meant the label's P and L, Jens. I do hope that vanity publishing isn't a major force. I want to hear the artists who are doing interesting things, not the rich kids who can afford to take a punt on a release.

Vanity publishing is THE major force! If you want to call it that. But even then, labels won't just take anyone or anything by them. But the burden of financing has definitely shifted.

[Mandryka]

Vanity publishing is THE major force! If you want to call it that. But even then, labels won't just take anyone or anything by them. But the burden of financing has definitely shifted.

It's a bit like hiring the Wigmore Hall. Basically anyone can get it if they're a competent musician and they pay. Thanks for this discussion both of you, it has helped me to understand something about what recordings are.

One really attractive thing about early music is that there's still a lot of scholar musicians making records, that raises the bar a notch I think.

[Wanderer]

The Willems cycle is on its way to me (actually to a friend's house, as I've been out of town for the recent general elections). As far as I could surmise from (extensive) Spotify sampling/listening, his is a non-radical approach with nevertheless quite a bit of character, played on a Stuart piano (the sound of which I've liked ever since acquiring a couple of Tall Poppies recordings of David Stanhope back in the day).

This will be cycle No.22 for me, including Gilels (the others presently being Schnabel, Kempff I/mono, Kempff II/stereo, Arrau I, Backhaus II, Gulda II/Amadeo, Badura-Skoda I/Gramola, Badura-Skoda II/Astrée, Brendel III, A.Fischer, Kovacevich, Barenboim III/DVD, Schiff, Paul Lewis, Brautigam, Lortie, Korstick, Guy, Goodyear, Pollini).*

Among recent ongoing projects, the first Bavouzet issue was so disappointing I did not bother getting vol.2 (although I am curious about his eventual late sonatas vol.3), Angela Hewitt's first three issues were OK, the fourth being somewhat less satisfying, I'm not impressed by Biss so far, Jumppanen's first issue was very good and can't wait for the rest.

I've also pre-ordered Pienaar's cycle, although I'm rather apprehensive of the "blind" investment (haven't managed to find any samples yet). Are there any?




*As my filing system sucks, I've been able to enumerate thanks to Jens's comprehensive survey.

Edit: corrected the number.

[jlaurson]

I just got -- and listened to -- the latest volume of Jonathan Biss. (No.4)

It's the one that impressed me most, actually... but it's no longer on Onyx but on his own label, imaginatively named: "Jonathan Biss Records". Onyx no longer lists him as an artist on their website, either... but the release had still been planned, at one point, to come out on Onyx.

[Cato]

Vanity publishing is THE major force! If you want to call it that. But even then, labels won't just take anyone or anything by them. But the burden of financing has definitely shifted.

I can see it now: classical  musicians wearing advertising patches on their tuxedos like NASCAR drivers!   

Or:

The Microsoft Seattle Symphony!  Bank of America's New York Philharmonic!

Texaco used to sponsor the Metropolitan Opera broadcasts: the company ended its support 12 years ago with this explanation.

"Patricia E. Yarrington, ChevronTexaco's vice president for public and government affairs, said in a statement, ''As our business has evolved, we believe it is important to focus more of our resources directly with the countries and markets where we do business.''

Toll Brothers, a house-construction company, is a sponsor now.