Beethoven's Piano Sonatas

[George]

For the record, the Nat set is not in the Icon series. It's in that EMI France series that produces better sound. (Less noise reduction)

[Todd]

For the record, the Nat set is not in the Icon series. It's in that EMI France series that produces better sound. (Less noise reduction)

I can't keep my reissue programs straight anymore.  I will say that the more recent old-box, new-box comparison I was able to make with the French reissues was the six disc Cortot plays Chopin and the forty disc Cortot plays everything sets, and the sound in the big Cortot set was generally better, though not by enough to warrant a separate purchase just for the same six discs, and those are 78s transfers I was able to compare.  (The '20s chamber recordings in the Cortot box sound immensely better than the Naxos transfers, though.)   Tape remasterings tend to offer less bang for the buck in many cases, though not all (eg, the Lili Krauss Mozart sonatas).  I can't recall doing A/Bs with Nat in the Beethoven and thinking the sound was significantly better.

[jlaurson]

For the record, the Nat set is not in the Icon series. It's in that EMI France series that produces better sound. (Less noise reduction)

Ah, well, not Icon, then... but the one pictured. But you are saying that the newer, black box ("Ses Enregistrements 1930-56") has noise-reduction over-kill and that the old white box is to be preferred, instead? (If one does pick Nat, that is. I used to unthinkingly dismiss him as an early also-ran, but recent sampling of early sonatas of his brought out a delightful, playful side that I quite cherished.)

[Brian]

Ah, well, not Icon, then... but the one pictured. But you are saying that the newer, black box ("Ses Enregistrements 1930-56") has noise-reduction over-kill and that the old white box is to be preferred, instead? (If one does pick Nat, that is. I used to unthinkingly dismiss him as an early also-ran, but recent sampling of early sonatas of his brought out a delightful, playful side that I quite cherished.)

I think George is saying that the newish, black French box series is, in general, better than the Icon series for sound.

[jlaurson]

I think George is saying that the newish, black French box series is, in general, better than the Icon series for sound.

Ah, yes, upon re-reading, I think you are right. So, still no answer -- except "I can't recall doing A/Bs with Nat in the Beethoven and thinking the sound was significantly better", which could mean that he can't recall there being notable differences or that he can't recall doing it A/Bs in the first place. Hmpf. 

[George]

I think George is saying that the newish, black French box series is, in general, better than the Icon series for sound.

Correct!

And Jens, while I fully agree Nat is absolutely delightful in the early works. I also feel that his set lacks the consistency to make it a top pick. I think he's a fine 4th pick, though, I'd place him even ahead of both Kempff's sets. My top 4 remain Annie Fischer, Gulda (amadeo/Brilliant), Schnabel (Naxos) and Backhaus (stereo for sound, mono for slightly better performance.)

[George]

Ah, yes, upon re-reading, I think you are right. So, still no answer -- except "I can't recall doing A/Bs with Nat in the Beethoven and thinking the sound was significantly better", which could mean that he can't recall there being notable differences or that he can't recall doing it A/Bs in the first place. Hmpf. 

I have no doubt that the sound on the Newest Nat set is the very best availalble. I am very picky about these things.

As Todd has stated, the latest Cortot has better sound that prior issues of the same performances. I own pretty much all of them and the newer box has the best sound.

[jlaurson]

Correct!

And Jens, while I fully agree Nat is absolutely delightful in the early works. I also feel that his set lacks the consistency to make it a top pick. I think he's a fine 4th pick, though, I'd place him even ahead of both Kempff's sets. My top 4 remain Annie Fischer, Gulda (amadeo/Brilliant), Schnabel (Naxos) and Backhaus (stereo for sound, mono for slightly better performance.)

Thanks... and not to worry... it wouldn't be my No.4. 
I have those you mention but Annie Fischer (haven't heard anything of hers that makes me really, really want to seek her cycle out, despite consistently -- if rather exclusively to GMG -- being hailed to the skys.)
Gulda ranks very high in my estimation, too, and might be the easiest to recommend as a first/only cycle. Schnabel I take no particular pleasure in; Backhaus I adore and is probably my personal favorite. (I haven't listened to all of the mono recordings, which I finally got my hands on last year, but what I've heard doesn't strike me as better than the stereo set.) Kempff, on the other hand, is a cycle where I do tend to think that the mono recordings might be a bit more playful. But funnily enough, these ... and "No.4" Yves Nat ... are all the cycles that had the longest to establish a reputation; clustered (except for Fischer, but not by much) at the very beginning of the recording of 'complete Beethoven Sonata cycles'. We're only missing Brendel I and Arrau I (not counting Gulda 0, Kempff Japan, Grinberg, and Gulda I which were all 'discovered/available' only much later than they were recorded) to have a complete party of the earliest 13 sets.

I have no doubt that the sound on the Newest Nat set is the very best availalble. I am very picky about these things.

As Todd has stated, the latest Cortot has better sound that prior issues of the same performances. I own pretty much all of them and the newer box has the best sound.

Ah, that is good to know. So I suppose if I'm interested in Nat I either convince a company to issue only the Beethoven or, more realistically, I go with the catch-all EMI box.

[George]

Thanks... and not to worry... it wouldn't be my No.4. 
I have those you mention but Annie Fischer (haven't heard anything of hers that makes me really, really want to seek her cycle out, despite consistently -- if rather exclusively to GMG -- being hailed to the skys.)

She has been praised elsewhere on the internet. On Steve Hoffman Music Forums there are a few big fans of hers, for example. Also on rmcr.

I have yet to find another recording by her that impresses me as much as her Beethoven. I suspect she had a special affinity for the composer.

Gulda ranks very high in my estimation, too, and might be the easiest to recommend as a first/only cycle. Schnabel I take no particular pleasure in; Backhaus I adore and is probably my personal favorite. (I haven't listened to all of the mono recordings, which I finally got my hands on last year, but what I've heard doesn't strike me as better than the stereo set.) Kempff, on the other hand, is a cycle where I do tend to think that the mono recordings might be a bit more playful. But funnily enough, these ... and "No.4" Yves Nat ... are all the cycles that had the longest to establish a reputation; clustered (except for Fischer, but not by much) at the very beginning of the recording of 'complete Beethoven Sonata cycles'. We're only missing Brendel I and Arrau I (not counting Gulda 0, Kempff Japan, Grinberg, and Gulda I which were all 'discovered/available' only much later than they were recorded) to have a complete party of the earliest 13 sets.

I gave Brendel's first set a go on a number of occasions and each time I failed to connect with what he was doing. Arrau I have sampled and may one day get, as I am a big fan of the pianist. But I feel his talents are better served elsewhere (Chopin, Schumann and Brahms, to start with.) 

Ah, that is good to know. So I suppose if I'm interested in Nat I either convince a company to issue only the Beethoven or, more realistically, I go with the catch-all EMI box.

Yeah, I think his Beethoven is a lot more successful than his Schumann, which comprises much of remains of the larger box. The single disc of his works at the end is very interesting and well worth having, though. 

[George]

From the notes: "mastered from 78s and the original magnetic tapes."

[jlaurson]

From the notes: "mastered from 78s and the original magnetic tapes."

merci bien!

[Brian]

Paavali Jumppanen's Opp. 53 & 57 are very, very fine. A tiny bit eccentric but entirely to the good, and there are a couple "hidden" inner-voice melodies he stresses which, in my hundreds of listens, I've somehow never before heard. Very satisfied and looking forward to hearing the rest of the set.

The most eccentric thing might be somebody's decision to put the Waldstein finale's coda on a separate track.

[Wanderer]

Paavali Jumppanen's Opp. 53 & 57 are very, very fine. A tiny bit eccentric but entirely to the good, and there are a couple "hidden" inner-voice melodies he stresses which, in my hundreds of listens, I've somehow never before heard. Very satisfied and looking forward to hearing the rest of the set.

The most eccentric thing might be somebody's decision to put the Waldstein finale's coda on a separate track.

Regarding opp.53 & 57: Jumppanen's on the rush-y side, takes a rather unromantic approach (not bad things at all if done right and with a reason, which is mostly the case here) and he does elucidate inner voices. However, phrasing suffers at times due to speed and I'd rather he played with a bit more feeling in certain passages.
The op.10 works benefit more from this approach than opp.53 & 57 and are simply excellent. This is the most satisfying op.10/3 last movement I've heard in a long time. Overall, first impressions are very good for opp.53 & 57, excellent for opp.10/1-3.

[Brian]

Counterpoint to the rushing thing: Waldstein's slow "introduzione" is taken at a properly slow tempo; I don't like it when pianists try to rush through in only 3 minutes.

Excited to hear Op. 10 next week.

[Todd]

Jumppanen plays 10/1 in a fairly conventional manner.  The ascending arepeggios in the first movement are nice, as is the rest of the movemnet; the slow movement is appealing; the final movement is energetic, fast, and meticulously well played.  10/2 starts off in promising fashion, with Jumppanen keeping things light and fun, and just sort of – wait, WTF?  He throws in a mini-cadenza near the end for, well, I have no idea whatsoever.  It doesn't fit at all.  The second movement is fine, and the final movement is generally fine, though some right hand chords sound more like stitched together tone clusters.  10/3 also opens fairly conventionally, with a peppy tempo in the Presto, and not a little in the way of awesome independence of hands.  No hard to follow bass lines here.  The Largo is slow and gloomy-ish and possessed of the extended pauses displayed in the first volume.  Jumppanen ratchets up intensity nicely for the climax and trails off thereafter.  The last two movements are again both pretty conventional, though both are delievered with a nice degree of exhuberance.  So, the WTF moment and perhaps a few too long pauses aside, an excellent disc.    

The second disc is devoted to Op 50-something works.  It's always nice to listen to a pianist who can play the opening movement of Op 53 at any tempo he or she chooses while also displaying masterful dynamic control.  Jumppanen doesn't really shine a new light on anything, and his extended pauses at the end aside, doesn't even throw in any quirks.  The Introduzione is a bit slower than normal, but nothing unusual, and the final movement has a basically perfect tempo, a vast dynamic range, and great clarity.  The opening movement to Op 54 displays widely contrasting themes, and Jumppanen displays some mighty clean and accurate playing in the fast sections, and some more slightly extended pauses aside, is pretty straightforward, and the second movement is played in swift, perpetuum mobile style.  Op 57 offers Jumppanen an ability to display his chops again, with wide dynamic swings, precise playing, some loud, fast chords stopping on a dime, and all manner of pianistic pyrotechnics in the first movement.  The Andante is a nice rest, though not without tension where appropriate, that gives way to a fast, intense, clear, hefty, meticulously played final movement.  I can't say there's much passion or emotional involvement; it's just super-snazzy playing.  Jumppanen seems to dash the notes off with ease.  Another excellent disc.

SOTA sound.

[Todd]

Just two sonatas.  That's all the solo Beethoven currently available from the late Hans Leygraf.  But hey, he left recordings of the last two sonatas. 

The 1973 vintage Op 110 starts off with a slow Moderato cantabile molto espressivo.  It is very formal and serious, not particularly emotional – maybe even a tad cold – yet in its restraint, it is incredibly expressive, and poised, and profound.  The Allegro molto is potent and dashed off quickly, and manages to sound light in the context of the performance, but it is still late LvB.  The Adagio is stylistically very much like the first movement and just as effective.  The fugue opens in very slow and deliberate fashion, and the playing is a bit cool and reasonably clear.  The Arioso is somber, ending with nice repeated chords that end with a sense of exhaustion, and then transitions peacefully to the inverted fugue, which is like the original fugue, and the piece ends in a controlled rather than rambunctious manner.  A superb performance.

Op 111, from 1980, opens with a dark, stormy Maestoso and moves to an even stormier Allegro.  The dated, metallic sound adds additional bite.  The playing is moderately quick and well controlled, if not the last work in virtuoso pyrotechnics.  Leygraf transitions to the Arietta basically attacca, and the the playing maintains a comparatively high degree of tension.  The transition to the variations sounds a bit abrupt, but Leygraf maintains a nice late-LvB feel.  He maintains something less than a breakneck pace, and the boogie woogie variation, while loud and powerful, does not speed up unduly.  The "little stars" are clear and cool, the trills clean and sharp, the coda nicely transcendental.  An excellent performance.

So, a superb Op 110 that can withstand comparison to the big guns, and a serious and excellent Op 111 that probably cannot.  Overall, a very rewarding disc.

Sound for the now dated radio broadcast recordings is acceptable if not SOTA, even for 1973 and 1980.  There's a bit more resonance and metallic sheen in Op 111, too. 

[André]

There is an upcoming 32 by Lang Lang. Label: DGG.

I wonder how many (if any) will fall for that ?? 

[Todd]

There is an upcoming 32 by Lang Lang. Label: DGG.

Where's the info on this?  I'll buy it the day it's released, though my expectations are not exactly high.

[Holden]

There is an upcoming 32 by Lang Lang. Label: DGG.

I wonder how many (if any) will fall for that ?? 

Is that to go alongside his planned WTC?

[amw]

Old and New Testaments? Following the recent Mozart with Harnoncourt?

Methinks Mr Lang is eyeing conducting in the near future...