Beethoven's Piano Sonatas

[George]

LOL--Understood. I guess I'm glad I'm not the only one for whom those flaws are not particularly obvious. By the way, I really enjoyed your posts throughout the long thread--we seem to have some common preferences. For a while, I thought a big difference was your apparent lack of interest or enthusiasm for the Lucchesini set. But then I saw your more recent posts on the subject in a different thread! :-)

Oh yes, that is a lovely set. I was very lucky to find a nice used copy last year. 

[George]

Thanks, Cato. I really enjoy the Backhaus as well (and it's kind of hard to put my finger on exactly why it seems to connect with me better than many others).

More than anyone else, he understands the structure of each work. Listening to him is like listening to an experienced traveler, taking you down a well worn path that only they know about. I don't think this is the only way, or even the best way, to play this music, but I am sure glad to have the mono set (for the slightly better performances) and the stereo set (for the much better sound.)

[Cato]

Thanks, Cato. I really enjoy the Backhaus as well (and it's kind of hard to put my finger on exactly why it seems to connect with me better than many others).

You are quite welcome!  I first heard Backhaus in the 1960's perform the last Sonata, and it was a quasi-spiritual experience.  0:)

More than anyone else, he understands the structure of each work. Listening to him is like listening to an experienced traveler, taking you down a well worn path that only they know about. I don't think this is the only way, or even the best way, to play this music, but I am sure glad to have the mono set (for the slightly better performances) and the stereo set (for the much better sound.)

George may be right: because Backhaus does indeed understand the structures, more things, perhaps different things, are brought out in his performances, than in others.

[jlaurson]

Thanks, Cato. I really enjoy the Backhaus as well (and it's kind of hard to put my finger on exactly why it seems to connect with me better than many others).

Gosh, I love Backhaus, too... There's so much Beethoven to choose from, and yet I always return to him. I always say that he shows you the forest for the trees... which, if I had to explain what I mean by that, is an unfortunate way of putting myself. So I won't, hoping that it makes sense. 

[Holden]

I've listened to the Gulda Amadeo three times through now, trying to understand what others see in the set but can't. I have no problems with tempo (for example the 50s Serkin Waldstein is my favourite) and I can certainly appreciate how technically skilled Gulda is. However the aforementioned connection, whether it's emotional, spiritual or whatever, just isn't there. I'll never listen to it again so I might as well sell it.

[prémont]

I've listened to the Gulda Amadeo three times through now, trying to understand what others see in the set but can't. I have no problems with tempo (for example the 50s Serkin Waldstein is my favourite) and I can certainly appreciate how technically skilled Gulda is. However the aforementioned connection, whether it's emotional, spiritual or whatever, just isn't there. I'll never listen to it again so I might as well sell it.

I acquired the Gulda Amadeo set on LP more than thirty years ago and later on CD. All in all I have - like you - traversed the set about three times. With time I have become increasingly disappointed with it, missing particularly the emotional connection. And I shall probably not listen to it any more. Guldas earlier mono integral is a bit more "human" ¨, but not sufficiently so to make it truly recommendable to someone, who dislikes the Amadeo set.

[Marc]

I acquired the Gulda Amadeo set on LP more than thirty years ago and later on CD. All in all I have - like you - traversed the set about three times. With time I have become increasingly disappointed with it, missing particularly the emotional connection. And I shall probably not listen to it any more. Guldas earlier mono integral is a bit more "human" ¨, but not sufficiently so to make it truly recommendable to someone, who dislikes the Amadeo set.

Funny you mention this, because I do recognize these feelings... even though I feel less 'harsh' towards the Gulda stereo.
I still take the boxset with me from time to time, for as much listening pleasure as possible on my ole fashioned portable cd-man, during my travelling to work and back home.

But there are other pianists who I admire more in Beethoven. From the older boys and girls, mainly Backhaus, Kempff and Ashtray Annie. Of later generations, I have a weak spot for Louis Lortie. HJ Lim was a bit too wild and uneven for me. The fortepiano set with Bilson et al offers some good listening, too.

I have to admit though, that my collection is quite modest compared to f.i. a certain... Todd.

[Marc]

Funny you mention this, because I do recognize these feelings... even though I feel less 'harsh' towards the Gulda stereo.
I still take the boxset with me from time to time, for as much listening pleasure as possible on my ole fashioned portable cd-man, during my travelling to work and back home.

But there are other pianists who I admire more in Beethoven. From the older boys and girls, mainly Backhaus, Kempff and Ashtray Annie. Of later generations, I have a weak spot for Louis Lortie. HJ Lim was a bit too wild and uneven for me. The fortepiano set with Bilson et al offers some good listening, too.

I have to admit though, that my collection is quite modest compared to f.i. a certain... Todd.

Oops, I forgot to mention Arrau.
I like his Beethoven, both analog and digital.
Hm, makes a nice modern piano top 5 then, despite my lack of true Beethoven knowledge: Backhaus, Kempff, Fischer (Annie), Arrau and Lortie.
(In no particular order.)

[prémont]

Oops, I forgot to mention Arrau.
I like his Beethoven, both analog and digital.
Hm, makes a nice modern piano top 5 then, despite my lack of true Beethoven knowledge: Backhaus, Kempff, Fischer (Annie), Arrau and Lortie.
(In no particular order.)

Lack of true Beethoven knowledge or not: Four of your faves are identical to mine, and I only would rate Badura-Skoda (both his recordings) higher than Lortie, whom I rate number 6 -shared with O'Connor.

[Mandryka]

Lack of true Beethoven knowledge or not: Four of your faves are identical to mine, and I only would rate Badura-Skoda (both his recordings) higher than Lortie, whom I rate number 6 -shared with O'Connor.

Have you had a chance to listen to Malcolm Binns yet? (John O'Conner was a Hatto Beethoven pianist, by the way. You know that I'm often impressed by Barington Coupe's taste

[prémont]

Have you had a chance to listen to Malcolm Binns yet? (John O'Conner was a Hatto Beethoven pianist, by the way. You know that I'm often impressed by Barington Coupe's taste

I got my HIFI kit installed a few days ago, so I have not yet listened to that much.

[Jo498]

Didn't we have a similar conversation a few months (or about 2 threadpages) ago...?

[Marc]

Lack of true Beethoven knowledge or not: Four of your faves are identical to mine, and I only would rate Badura-Skoda (both his recordings) higher than Lortie, whom I rate number 6 -shared with O'Connor.

I 'fear' that knowledge has got nothing to do with this.
There seems to be a certain corresponding element in our taste.

Like I said before, compared to Todd (and most likely many other participants in this thread), my Beethoven Klaviersonaten Collection is rather modest.
Who knows, maybe I'm gonna check out O'Conor and Badura-Skoda sometime. Especially the latter 'should' be part of my modest belongings.
Another one who's on my wishlist is Richard Goode.

During the last year I've been listening quite a lot to Beethoven's Klavierwerk, you know... (and to Bruckner symphonies btw, but that's another story), which is a rarity for such a (mostly) barocky guy like me. Yesterday evening, for instance, I got myself ready for a good night sleep whilst listening to Pollini's rendering of opus 79 and 81a (from a 'favorite sonatas' twofer), and those performances were great, too. I've also been impressed with his famous 2-cd set with Beet's last sonatas. I like Pollini's crisp approach towards this impressive music. But last year I did a pre-listening to a disc with the opus 2 sonatas, and I wasn't really convinced. Maybe I wasn't in the right mood then. Anyway, Pollini's complete boxset could be another 'wanna-have' in the future. As always, (lack of) money is an important issue here.

Didn't we have a similar conversation a few months (or about 2 threadpages) ago...?

Apparently.

I'm not a regular in this thread, but I do predict: there's gonna be a similar conversation in 'due time' again.
I don't mind really. Being a manic regular in Bach's organ thread for a while, I always liked to blabber about 'who's the 'best'?'

[prémont]

There seems to be a certain corresponding element in our taste.

We have experienced this quite often.

Who knows, maybe I'm gonna check out O'Conor and Badura-Skoda sometime. Especially the latter 'should' be part of my modest belongings.
Another one who's on my wishlist is Richard Goode.

I am not that keen on Goode, finding him somewhat workmanlike. If you want some variation from the established masters, Lucchesini, Heidsieck or Nat might offer more musical value.

[Marc]

We have experienced this quite often.

I am not that keen on Goode, finding him somewhat workmanlike. If you want some variation from the established masters, Lucchesini, Heidsieck or Nat might offer more musical value.

I've got some 'loose' discs of Lucchesini and Heidsieck.
I should revisit them, but I recall Heidsieck being really good.
His EMI integral is officially OOP for quite some time already, and it's (alas) also not part of the Dutch central library catalogue.
Long time ago, the old mid-price EMI box was grinning at me in a local shop for years and years (and years), but at the time I was already happy with my Kempff and Gulda boxsets, and some loose stuff by Gilels, Brendel and Pollini.
So, I decided to leave it with that.

Hopefully Warner will reissue the Heidsieck boxset, because most of the 2nd hand internet offerings of the old EMI set are too expensive for me.
Besides that... sometimes I want to buy other discs, too, you know. I've got to spread my interests, so to speak.

[jlaurson]

We have experienced this quite often.

I am not that keen on Goode, finding him somewhat workmanlike. If you want some variation from the established masters, Lucchesini, Heidsieck or Nat might offer more musical value.

I remember going to the record shop when Goode's set was peak-hype... and I wanted it so badly. the store opened the set to let me listen to it... and after a few minutes of op.106 or op.111 I was very considerably calmer about not being able to really afford it. I wasn't much impressed... although I might also have missed something at the time. But it certainly wasn't crystalline Pollini-esque. Eventually I might want to try Heisieck, too, but only if I can find an inexpensive only-the-Beethoven set. For Yves Nat I made an exception and got the box with all his stuff... but filed it under Beethoven and I ignore the rest. Probably at my peril. It's a filing-purity thing. :-)

[Marc]

I remember going to the record shop when Goode's set was peak-hype... and I wanted it so badly. the store opened the set to let me listen to it... and after a few minutes of op.106 or op.111 I was very considerably calmer about not being able to really afford it. I wasn't much impressed... although I might also have missed something at the time. But it certainly wasn't crystalline Pollini-esque. Eventually I might want to try Heisieck, too, but only if I can find an inexpensive only-the-Beethoven set. For Yves Nat I made an exception and got the box with all his stuff... but filed it under Beethoven and I ignore the rest. Probably at my peril. It's a filing-purity thing. :-)

Do you well-informed men (or women, sorry Stan) know the Garrick Ohlsson recordings?
And, if yes, how do you rate them?
I just discovered that I apparently had them on my PC (thanks to the library), but I forgot all about them.

Right now I'm listening to the first of opus 2, but not in a really concentrated way.
I find the sound a bit hollow, that's all I can say for now.

[prémont]

Do you well-informed men (or women, sorry Stan) know the Garrick Ohlsson recordings?
And, if yes, how do you rate them?
I just discovered that I apparently had them on my PC (thanks to the library), but I forgot all about them.

Right now I'm listening to the first of opus 2, but not in a really concentrated way.
I find the sound a bit hollow, that's all I can say for now.

I own the set, but have not listened to it yet.

[Marc]

Just ordered (library) Yves Nat playing Beethoven, with Pathétique, Mondschein, Waldstein and Appassionata.
Checked some short soundclips before and I thought his playing was very passionate.
Mono sound was a bit floating sometimes, but hey, I should be able to handle that.

[George]

I remember going to the record shop when Goode's set was peak-hype... and I wanted it so badly. the store opened the set to let me listen to it... and after a few minutes of op.106 or op.111 I was very considerably calmer about not being able to really afford it. I wasn't much impressed... although I might also have missed something at the time.

Beethoven's music deserves better than a goode performance.