Author Topic: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)  (Read 177583 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Opus106

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 9043
  • Bachafugaholic
  • Location: Chennai, India
Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #360 on: March 23, 2010, 07:15:12 AM »
Is there a version of K. 525 that includes a part for the harpsichord? I remember, about  two or three years ago, I listened to this Mozart piece on the radio (I'm starting to doubt myself because I just noticed that EKN's instrumentation does not call for a harpsichord), and the sounds were such a delight to listen to compared the chamber(-sized) orchestral renditions that I was used to: sparse strings, and a harpsichord, to boot, I remember thinking to myself that that was how Mozart ought be performed. That was in the recesses of my mind until a few days ago when I wanted to listen to (something like) that again. I can count about two (maybe three) HIP versions: the Manze that has been recommended several times in this thread, and then their is Savall's and perhaps an OOP l'Archibudelli, somewhere; but the samples don't seem to hint at the use of a harpsichord continuo. So can anyone recommend me a version (assuming there's one)? Or, if not, suggest a famous Mozart serenade that might have a place for the H. Suggestions, as always, will be appreciated. :)
« Last Edit: March 23, 2010, 07:31:04 AM by Opus106 »
Regards,
Navneeth

Offline Gurn Blanston

  • Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 31524
  • Support your local Haydn Society
    • Gurn's Haydn Blog
  • Location: Texas, where else?
  • Currently Listening to:
    Haydn, I reckon.
Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #361 on: March 23, 2010, 07:35:37 AM »
Is there a version of K. 525 that includes a part for the harpsichord? I remember, about  two or three years ago, I listened to this Mozart piece on the radio (I'm starting to doubt myself because I just noticed that EKN's instrumentation does not call for a harpsichord), and the sounds were such a delight to listen to compared the chamber(-sized) orchestral renditions that I was used to: sparse strings, and a harpsichord, to boot. I remember thinking to myself that that was how Mozart ought be performed. That was in the recesses of my mind until a few days ago when I wanted to listen to (something like) that again. I can count about two (maybe three) HIP versions: the Manze that has been recommended several times in this thread, and then their is Savall's and perhaps an OOP l'Archibudelli, somewhere; but the samples don't seem to hint at the use of a harpsichord continuo. So can anyone recommend me a version (assuming there's one)? Or, if not, suggest a famous Mozart serenade that might have a place for the H. Suggestions, as always, will be appreciated. :)

I have a version by (Anthony? Damn, can't remember >:( ) Newman and the Brandenburg Consort (? double damn) that is a very small group in which he plays harpsichord continuo. It's on Newport Classics. I like it a bunch, and I will ad that it also has K 136-138 for the same group. Any or all of those works can be played anywhere from 1 to 4 to a part, since Mozart didn't specify. Continuo was probably a given and would be used whether written in or not. So anything more than an actual string quintet (with Bass) or quartet (for the earlier works) can be made to fit. As you discovered, making to fit and sounding good are not necessarily the same thing. :)

8)
Help support GMG by purchasing from Amazon using this link

Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Follow me on Twitter @GurnBlanston106

Offline Opus106

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 9043
  • Bachafugaholic
  • Location: Chennai, India
Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #362 on: March 23, 2010, 08:07:45 AM »
I have a version by (Anthony? Damn, can't remember >:( ) Newman and the Brandenburg Consort (? double damn) that is a very small group in which he plays harpsichord continuo. It's on Newport Classics. I like it a bunch, and I will ad that it also has K 136-138 for the same group. Any or all of those works can be played anywhere from 1 to 4 to a part, since Mozart didn't specify. Continuo was probably a given and would be used whether written in or not. So anything more than an actual string quintet (with Bass) or quartet (for the earlier works) can be made to fit. As you discovered, making to fit and sounding good are not necessarily the same thing. :)

8)

Thanks, Gurn. Alas, the recording is nowhere to be found (among Amazon.com, Presto, MDT and BRO, anyway). But there is one slightly pricey, OOP sony two-fer which also contains a couple of the symphonies.

And as regards the instrumentation, it did sound more or less like a string quintet, with continuo -- just about ideal for a Classical string serenade or divertimento, IMO. :)
Regards,
Navneeth

Offline Gurn Blanston

  • Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 31524
  • Support your local Haydn Society
    • Gurn's Haydn Blog
  • Location: Texas, where else?
  • Currently Listening to:
    Haydn, I reckon.
Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #363 on: March 23, 2010, 08:14:18 AM »
Thanks, Gurn. Alas, the recording is nowhere to be found (among Amazon.com, Presto, MDT and BRO, anyway). But there is one slightly pricey, OOP sony two-fer which also contains a couple of the symphonies.

And as regards the instrumentation, it did sound more or less like a string quintet, with continuo -- just about ideal for a Classical string serenade or divertimento, IMO. :)

You wouldn't know by looking at the listing, but this is it:

http://www.amazon.com/Music-String-Orchestra-Mozart/dp/B00005NZL7/ref=sr_1_26?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1269360625&sr=8-26

Not that I recommend it at that price. I got it 7-8 years ago for less than $10, didn't realize what a treasure it was today... ::) 

I like the small ensembles best. Mozart really left the door open by not specifying "X on a part", I've even heard K525 with a full orchestra! :o :o

8)
Help support GMG by purchasing from Amazon using this link

Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Follow me on Twitter @GurnBlanston106

Offline Opus106

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 9043
  • Bachafugaholic
  • Location: Chennai, India
Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #364 on: March 23, 2010, 08:28:42 AM »
You wouldn't know by looking at the listing, but this is it:

http://www.amazon.com/Music-String-Orchestra-Mozart/dp/B00005NZL7/ref=sr_1_26?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1269360625&sr=8-26

Not that I recommend it at that price. I got it 7-8 years ago for less than $10, didn't realize what a treasure it was today... ::) 

Ah. Lucky you. ;)

Quote
Mozart really left the door open by not specifying "X on a part", I've even heard K525 with a full orchestra! :o :o
8)

That's the con of not specifying the parts! Rapidly going through the selections at the local store, I take a moment to shudder when I see the Karajan/BPO disc. (Happens with the Brandenburgs as well.)
Regards,
Navneeth

Scarpia

  • Guest
Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #365 on: March 23, 2010, 08:53:18 AM »
That's the con of not specifying the parts! Rapidly going through the selections at the local store, I take a moment to shudder when I see the Karajan/BPO disc. (Happens with the Brandenburgs as well.)

There is nothing to fear in Karajan's Brandenburgs.  I have no affection for the late set, which has really bad sound, but the old 60's set has some wonderful buttery string sound in some of the slow movements which can be a historically inappropriate delight.

Offline Opus106

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 9043
  • Bachafugaholic
  • Location: Chennai, India
Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #366 on: March 23, 2010, 09:23:08 AM »
There is nothing to fear in Karajan's Brandenburgs.  I have no affection for the late set, which has really bad sound, but the old 60's set has some wonderful buttery string sound in some of the slow movements which can be a historically inappropriate delight.

Okay, as a coating to a documentary, perhaps. ;) I grew up listening to very un-HIP versions, but more recently I've come to love the crispness and the lightness of the period instrument performances. Hence too much fat is a no-no. :)
Regards,
Navneeth

Scarpia

  • Guest
Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #367 on: March 23, 2010, 09:33:15 AM »
Okay, as a coating to a documentary, perhaps. ;) I grew up listening to very un-HIP versions, but more recently I've come to love the crispness and the lightness of the period instrument performances. Hence too much fat is a no-no. :)

Shame you can't appreciate one without rejecting the other.   :(

Offline Opus106

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 9043
  • Bachafugaholic
  • Location: Chennai, India
Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #368 on: March 23, 2010, 09:43:50 AM »
Shame you can't appreciate one without rejecting the other.   :(

Well, it's not utter and complete rejection. I most likely won't spend money on buying the CDs, but if it's part of, say, a live concert, then I'm all for it. :)
Regards,
Navneeth

Offline Sorin Eushayson

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 308
    • Classical Music Mayhem
  • Location: West Coast, USA
Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #369 on: March 24, 2010, 05:52:14 PM »
Hmmm...  Should I...?  Yes, I should - unleash Minkowski!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYSWYhhsyy4

George

  • Guest
Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #370 on: March 24, 2010, 06:05:17 PM »

Offline Coopmv

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 11738
  • Mein Freund ist mein
Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #371 on: March 24, 2010, 06:10:39 PM »
There is nothing to fear in Karajan's Brandenburgs.  I have no affection for the late set, which has really bad sound, but the old 60's set has some wonderful buttery string sound in some of the slow movements which can be a historically inappropriate delight.

I saw the YouTube of a younger Karajan, perhaps from the 1960's performing some Bach harpsichord concertos in a small chamber group setting.  It was quite enjoyable and Karajan was actually a decent harpsichordist.  Unfortunately, I did not bookmark that YouTube page and now have a hard time locating it ...

Offline DavidRoss

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 7590
  • Location: Northern California
Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #372 on: March 24, 2010, 07:29:31 PM »
Hmmm...  Should I...?  Yes, I should - unleash Minkowski!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYSWYhhsyy4
Love that album, one of the best purchases of the past few years and the best recording of these symphonies I know.  We want more!  More!
"Maybe the problem most of you have ... is that you're not listening to Barbirolli." ~Sarge

"The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

Elgarian

  • Guest
Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #373 on: March 25, 2010, 03:48:41 AM »
Hmmm...  Should I...?  Yes, I should - unleash Minkowski!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYSWYhhsyy4

This is new to me ... wow! How exhilarating. Thanks Sorin.
(Just placed my order!)
« Last Edit: March 25, 2010, 03:58:27 AM by Elgarian »

DarkAngel

  • Guest
Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #374 on: March 25, 2010, 04:20:20 AM »

 
This is in my pre-order basket, 3/29/10 release date coming up fast..........it will be mine!
Follow-up to the thrilling Jacobs March 2007 release below
 

DarkAngel

  • Guest
Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #375 on: March 25, 2010, 04:27:28 AM »

 
MDT is having sale on Linn Records label this month so I just ordered newest hybrid MacKerras set, this will join the excellent previous release (one of the very best 38-41 ever made) by same team below:
 

Offline DavidRoss

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 7590
  • Location: Northern California
Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #376 on: March 25, 2010, 08:39:43 AM »

 
MDT is having sale on Linn Records label this month so I just ordered newest hybrid MacKerras set, this will join the excellent previous release (one of the very best 38-41 ever made)
Tempting, especially at the sale price.  I already have MacKerras's previous cycle--are these SCO discs significantly better/different?  How do these HIPer but still modern instrument performances compare with the better period instrument ones, like Jacobs or Minkowski?
"Maybe the problem most of you have ... is that you're not listening to Barbirolli." ~Sarge

"The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

Scarpia

  • Guest
Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #377 on: March 25, 2010, 11:23:51 AM »
Tempting, especially at the sale price.  I already have MacKerras's previous cycle--are these SCO discs significantly better/different?  How do these HIPer but still modern instrument performances compare with the better period instrument ones, like Jacobs or Minkowski?

I have both, have listened to the Telarc cycle extensively and only to parts of the new one.  Compared to the cycle on Telarc, I'd say the new Mackerras set lets the brass play more exuberantly and is more extroverted in general.  I prefer the new Mackerras to the old.  Probably it is similar in spirit to the Minkowski on DG, and the Rene Jacobs on HM, which I liked a bit more than Minkowski.

But for me the greatest ever to come down the pike is the Harnoncourt, Concertgebouw (not the Harnoncourt Chamber Orchestra of Europe).  I vividly remember first hearing them and being stunned to hear horns and trumpets barking and timpani whacking in Mozart.  I seem to recall notes written for the recordings by Harnoncourt himself in which he expressed the opinion that Mozart was a brilliant orchestrator who loved the sound of the orchestra, and who was poorly served by the polite style of performance of his music.  It sometimes irks me to see Minkowski's admittedly excellent recordings described as revolutionary, when Harnoncourt was doing the same back in the 80's.  (Well, I'm sure it is revolutionary to the producers at DG, who considered it obligatory to record Karajan's sissified Mozart.)

At this point it is not to expensive to hear Harnoncourt's recordings.  For 25 pounds you can get 8 cds that go back to Symphony No 17



Or for 12 pounds, a smaller set of 4 cds, which unfortunately omits #33 and 34, which are wonderful little works.

« Last Edit: March 25, 2010, 11:29:58 AM by Scarpia »

Offline Opus106

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 9043
  • Bachafugaholic
  • Location: Chennai, India
Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #378 on: March 25, 2010, 11:30:38 AM »
Ooh, I love timpani-whacking in Mozart!
Regards,
Navneeth

Offline Marc

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 3857
  • Sine Cerere et Bach friget Venus
Re: Mozart in Period Performances (HIP)
« Reply #379 on: March 25, 2010, 01:01:48 PM »
Ooh, I love timpani-whacking in Mozart!

Oh yeah!
AND the barking brass!

Not only in Mozart, btw. :D

Even if it's not entirely HIP-proven .... I couldn't care less. (Pfui mich!)
It just excites me.
Help support the GMG Classical Music Forum by purchasing from Amazon using this link, this link, or this link