Scottish Independence Referendum

[Karl Henning]

Should the goal be having an idea? The answer may not be the obvious . . . .

[Florestan]

Though of course, according to the Russians, this just indicates that the vote was rigged, North Korea stylee.

Russian cynicism and plain nerve knows of no limits.

OTOH, I'm sure that the No ruined a lot of Russian plans and schemes. Mark my words: I wouldn't be surprised in the least if it was found that SNP and Alex Salmond were supported financially and logistically by the Russians. 

[not edward]

Russian cynicism and plain nerve knows of no limits.

OTOH, I'm sure that the No ruined a lot of Russian plans and schemes. Mark my words: I wouldn't be surprised in the least if it was found that SNP and Alex Salmond were supported financially and logistically by the Russians. 

I'd be shocked. Regardless of the ethical and legal issues, something like that would be guaranteed to leak, and it would destroy the party's credibility for a generation. There are some politicians stupid enough and sufficiently morally compromised to try something like this, but I think even the No campaign would agree that Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon aren't among them.

In re: the turnout, it's quite rare that people are able to feel that voting on an issue that mattered to them. Most British elections are hard to get excited about, when all campaigns are yelling "No, we can't" and pounding on whichever (usually irrelevant) wedge issue they think can gain traction from.

[Gurn Blanston]

Russian cynicism and plain nerve knows of no limits.

OTOH, I'm sure that the No ruined a lot of Russian plans and schemes. Mark my words: I wouldn't be surprised in the least if it was found that SNP and Alex Salmond were supported financially and logistically by the Russians. 

I'd be shocked. Regardless of the ethical and legal issues, something like that would be guaranteed to leak, and it would destroy the party's credibility for a generation. There are some politicians stupid enough and sufficiently morally compromised to try something like this, but I think even the No campaign would agree that Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon aren't among them.

In re: the turnout, it's quite rare that people are able to feel that voting on an issue that mattered to them. Most British elections are hard to get excited about, when all campaigns are yelling "No, we can't" and pounding on whichever (usually irrelevant) wedge issue they think can gain traction from.

I think it is the essential difference between what one (Russia) might LIKE to do as opposed to what is actually do-able. It is one thing to imagine what might have been a useful course of action, but quite another to allege it actually could/did occur.

[Florestan]

I think it is the essential difference between what one (Russia) might LIKE to do as opposed to what is actually do-able. It is one thing to imagine what might have been a useful course of action, but quite another to allege it actually could/did occur.

Urho Kekkonen, former president of Finland and KGB agent.

Willy Brandt, former German chancellor and KGB agent.

[North Star]

Urho Kekkonen, former president of Finland and KGB agent.

Who successfully avoided the occupation of Finland by Soviet troops, and also managed to get Finland closer to the West. Very poor performance indeed for a 'KGB agent'.

[snyprrr]

All's Quiet on the Northern Front?

[Florestan]

Who successfully avoided the occupation of Finland by Soviet troops, and also managed to get Finland closer to the West.

It's hard to imagine a better cover up.

Very poor performance indeed for a 'KGB agent'.

Maybe they had other performance criteria for him, for instance how many classified files, documents and information he supplied to his friends. 



(Sorry, couldn't resist...  )

OTOH, https://helda.helsinki.fi/bitstream/handle/10224/4054/kekkonen_and_kgb2008.pdf?sequence=1

[North Star]

It's hard to imagine a better cover up.

It would have been an even better cover-up had he been successful in getting the Karelian Isthmus back. 

Maybe they had other performance criteria for him, for instance how many classified files, documents and information he supplied to his friends. 

Well sure, but again, those things work both ways.

OTOH, https://helda.helsinki.fi/bitstream/handle/10224/4054/kekkonen_and_kgb2008.pdf?sequence=1

Thanks, an interesting read. The bit about the Estonian anti-communists is unpleasant, but not unfathomable in the situation.

[Karl Henning]

So . . . a few months on, has there been healing in Scotland?

[vandermolen]

So . . . a few months on, has there been healing in Scotland?

The Queen picked this up in her Christmas message.

[The new erato]

The collapse in oil prices probably have softened the blow of the referendum result.

[Ken B]

The collapse in oil prices probably have softened the blow of the referendum result.

Not for those of us non-Scots who wanted Yes to win! (I thought yes good for England, bad for Scotland.)

[mahler10th]

Not for those of us non-Scots who wanted Yes to win! (I thought yes good for England, bad for Scotland.)

In my absence I did not see this thread.  Anyway, yes, you're comment there is bang on the money.  Well said.