Why do you NOT like your favourite composer?

[EigenUser]

Do you remember what it was called? I'd love to read it through.

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,22889.0.html

Haven't heard it yet, but "an overheating carousel ride" sounds like good fun!

Oh, is it ever!

When I'm driving I like playing it loud with the windows down because
1. Driving is my best opportunity to play music louder than usual since I'm in an apartment
2. It is slightly amusing to see other peoples' reactions to loud classical music -- particularly loud modern classical music. Especially on my way to classes when people are outside walking around the campus/sidewalks.

[Linus]

I like this one;  I've known some Wagnerites who hate the author, so we might take that fact as vindication

I see I'm in for a feast. Thanks for the links!

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,22889.0.html

Thanks much.

Oh, is it ever!

When I'm driving I like playing it loud with the windows down because
1. Driving is my best opportunity to play music louder than usual since I'm in an apartment
2. It is slightly amusing to see other peoples' reactions to loud classical music -- particularly loud modern classical music. Especially on my way to classes when people are outside walking around the campus/sidewalks.

Haha! Those sweet virgin ears.

I'm far less radical: the closest I've come to that is how, while in college, I once accidentally had my flat window open while "blasting" some Beethoven quartets.

Once I noticed it was open (after an hour or two), I thought, "You are a bad neighbour", swiftly replaced by, "Nay! You are a guardian of culture!"

[EigenUser]

I see I'm in for a feast. Thanks for the links!

Thanks much.

Haha! Those sweet virgin ears.

I'm far less radical: the closest I've come to that is how, while in college, I once accidentally had my flat window open while "blasting" some Beethoven quartets.

Once I noticed it was open (after an hour or two), I thought, "You are a bad neighbour", swiftly replaced by, "Nay! You are a guardian of culture!"

That's funny. In light of the thread about elitism and classical music I will say that I certainly don't think I'm any better for it. But, obviously many people just haven't heard modern classical music (there are many, many things I haven't heard yet, either!).

I've told this story on here before, but one time I was leaving a supermarket parking lot and there was a homeless guy collecting money in the median strip. I was waiting to turn on the main road and I had the opening of the Ligeti Piano Concerto playing. He walked over and I assumed he was going to ask for money. He never did. He just wanted to know what kind of music I was playing. I told him that it was classical music, but that it was written in the 1980s. He looked at me and said "You know, it ain't bad!" and went back to where he was before. That made my day. I was always tempted to buy him a meal from the supermarket later on (I don't like giving out cash, plus I usually don't carry any), but it just seemed awkward. I really wish I had.

[Ken B]

That's funny. In light of the thread about elitism and classical music I will say that I certainly don't think I'm any better for it. But, obviously many people just haven't heard modern classical music (there are many, many things I haven't heard yet, either!).

I've told this story on here before, but one time I was leaving a supermarket parking lot and there was a homeless guy collecting money in the median strip. I was waiting to turn on the main road and I had the opening of the Ligeti Piano Concerto playing. He walked over and I assumed he was going to ask for money. He never did. He just wanted to know what kind of music I was playing. I told him that it was classical music, but that it was written in the 1980s. He looked at me and said "You know, it ain't bad!" and went back to where he was before. That made my day. I was always tempted to buy him a meal from the supermarket later on (I don't like giving out cash, plus I usually don't carry any), but it just seemed awkward. I really wish I had.

I rarely give money to panhandlers. I worry they'll just waste it on avant-garde art.

[Linus]

I've told this story on here before, but one time I was leaving a supermarket parking lot and there was a homeless guy collecting money in the median strip. I was waiting to turn on the main road and I had the opening of the Ligeti Piano Concerto playing. He walked over and I assumed he was going to ask for money. He never did. He just wanted to know what kind of music I was playing. I told him that it was classical music, but that it was written in the 1980s. He looked at me and said "You know, it ain't bad!" and went back to where he was before. That made my day. I was always tempted to buy him a meal from the supermarket later on (I don't like giving out cash, plus I usually don't carry any), but it just seemed awkward. I really wish I had.

Cool story. Who knows, he might have been a musicology professor going through trying times.

I rarely give money to panhandlers. I worry they'll just waste it on avant-garde art.

I literally spilt my drink! You owe me a new keyboard.

[Linus]

What do you mean with "ad hoc" in music? I find that Beethoven's music has a very good balance between "surprising" and "logical".

Just the general feeling that the continuity of Beethoven's composition is "thought out", while e.g. Mozart gives the impression of an effortless flow of melody.

[AdamFromWashington]

Just the general feeling that the continuity of Beethoven's composition is "thought out", while e.g. Mozart gives the impression of an effortless flow of melody.

Funny, that's the reason I prefer Beethoven to Mozart. I find Beethoven easier to follow. Mozart just goes and goes and goes. Which is great! But I like the musical "road signs" in Beethoven's work, if that makes any sense.



You know, for some reason I find it really hard to say anything bad about my favorite composers...

I mean, um...

Sibelius could be a bit monochrome, I guess, but that doesn't sound right...

Bartok 2nd Violin Concerto sounds repetitious to me, but it's variations, so...

How's this?

Rachmaninoff doesn't work for me if I don't like the melody. Not much structure, kind of rhapsodic. I usually get bored after two movements.

But I don't want to admit it!   

[Jaakko Keskinen]

Mozart uses too little different musical keys, especially minor keys. And much of his music sounds too pleasant or similar. Of course there are many exceptions, especially when he matures.

As for Beethoven, he's not as perfect in writing vocal music as he is with instrumental. As much as I love Fidelio, many of the characters in it don't quite reach the warmth for ex. Mozart has. Rocco is one exception and although Don Pizarro is very much card-carrying villain I like him very much precisely because of that. His magnificent Ha! welch ein Augenblick-aria helps. It's so over-the-top.

Tchaikovsky can sometimes sound over-sentimental.

[EigenUser]

Mozart uses too little different musical keys, especially minor keys. And much of his music sounds too pleasant or similar. Of course there are many exceptions, especially when he matures.

It's interesting that this "complaint" is repeated so often. I've seen this many other places besides GMG, too. Haydn, on the other hand, can be generally "gruffer". More rough edges.

As for Beethoven, he's not as perfect in writing vocal music as he is with instrumental. As much as I love Fidelio, many of the characters in it don't quite reach the warmth for ex. Mozart has. Rocco is one exception and although Don Pizarro is very much card-carrying villain I like him very much precisely because of that. His magnificent Ha! welch ein Augenblick-aria helps. It's so over-the-top.

I know that Beethoven was highly self-critical when it came to his opera writing. He was apparently very upset that he only managed to write one.

Tchaikovsky can sometimes sound over-sentimental.

Oh, you must be Pierre Boulez!

[Jo498]

The contemporaries had very different complaints regarding Mozart: "too many notes", too difficult both for players/singers and listeners, too heavy/dense orchestral accompaniment for the singers etc.

Beethoven's problem with opera has several aspects. He obviously was not interested in just writing any old opera. He had very high standards as far as the "morals" of the libretto go (apparently he disliked Cosi fan tutte because it was "immoral").
The only major German Opera to get inspiration from was The Magic Flute, a symbolical fairy tale, rather different in many ways from Leonore/Fidelio. So he also took French influences, but all of this had to be fused into something that was both dramatically and musically coherent (and Beethoven's own standards for musical coherence were higher than anyone else's in his time). It took him two and half versions to arrive at something he could live with. Still, there are some clashes between the comical bits of the first act and the heroic second act, although I find Fidelio altogether successful and a tremendous piece.
There were plans for more operas, but nothing came of them, usually because Beethoven did not like the libretto. It's probably better that he could focus on things more suited to what he was best at than waste time with opera projects that might not have been completed.

[Linus]

Funny, that's the reason I prefer Beethoven to Mozart. I find Beethoven easier to follow. Mozart just goes and goes and goes. Which is great! But I like the musical "road signs" in Beethoven's work, if that makes any sense.

I see what you mean, and admittedly Beethoven's more "intellectual" compositional style is one reason I love his music. It turns out it was praise disguised as a complaint.

[Jaakko Keskinen]

Returning to Tchaikovsky: His tragic life. Now don't get me wrong. This is not Tchaikovsky's fault and this actually makes me like him and pity him more. But it's the reason why I don't always like to read about him since his life seemed to have so much suffering, even for a composer, that it makes me feel really uncomfortable when I empathize with him. Of course it's a good thing to have empathy for someone else but it can feel painful sometimes. Especially if one suffers from anxiety disorder, although when reading about Tchaikovsky's life, mine seems like a walk in the park.

[Florestan]

Returning to Tchaikovsky: His tragic life. Now don't get me wrong. This is not Tchaikovsky's fault and this actually makes me like him and pity him more. But it's the reason why I don't always like to read about him since his life seemed to have so much suffering, even for a composer, that it makes me feel really uncomfortable when I empathize with him. Of course it's a good thing to have empathy for someone else but it can feel painful sometimes. Especially if one suffers from anxiety disorder, although when reading about Tchaikovsky's life, mine seems like a walk in the park.

Have you by any chance read this?

[Florestan]

Tchaikovsky can sometimes sound over-sentimental.

I appear in my works just as God made me, and such as I have become through the action of time, nationality and education. I have never been untrue to myself.

[ZauberdrachenNr.7]

I wish Brahms hadn't been such a perfectionist and burnt so much work.  I wish he didn't destroy his letters.  I wish he didn't die.

[North Star]

I wish Brahms hadn't been such a perfectionist and burnt so much work.  I wish he didn't destroy his letters.  I wish he didn't die.

That's what I hate about all of my favourite composers, too - they all should have lived a hundred years (more).

[Wanderer]

I wish Brahms hadn't been such a perfectionist and burnt so much work.

The same can be wished for Sibelius. Dig those ashes, Science, and give us the Eighth Symphony back!

[Jaakko Keskinen]

Have you by any chance read this?

Actually, no. And I haven't read nearly as much about Tchaikovsky as for ex. about Wagner (it also helps that Wagner biographies, researches and other books are much more numerous than those about Tchaikovsky) but I know the basics of his life and some extra.

[ZauberdrachenNr.7]

The same can be wished for Sibelius. Dig those ashes, Science, and give us the Eighth Symphony back!

I concur.

[Ken B]

It's interesting that this "complaint" is repeated so often. I've seen this many other places besides GMG, too. Haydn, on the other hand, can be generally "gruffer". More rough edges.
I know that Beethoven was highly self-critical when it came to his opera writing. He was apparently very upset that he only managed to write one.
{libelous insult deleted}

As for Mozart and keys ... he wrote before equal temperament. As of course did everyone then.