Who will get the Berliner Philharmoniker gig?

[MishaK]

You are marvellous in passing broad brushed judgment without ever actually pinning it on anything I actually said. Bravo. Discussion pointless indeed. Reading comprehension would be a prerequisite for that.

[Phrygian]

You are marvellous in passing broad brushed judgment without ever actually pinning it on anything I actually said. Bravo. Discussion pointless indeed. Reading comprehension would be a prerequisite for that.

Yes, I realize I'm functionally illiterate!!  Anyway, I enjoyed the 'discussion' despite it's somewhat angular trajectory.  It's nice to communicate with somebody on the boards who actually has something of value to say.

Auf wiedersehen.

[MishaK]

Saying that they aren't suppressed but hearing an alternative point of view from, what was it now, 'white males'.  I'd suggest that taking somebody to court because they've said something about you - based on race, gender or sexual preference - and which YOU think is "offensive" (as we have experienced in Australia) isn't freedom of speech at all.  It's uses the processes of the courts to shut down conversation because you (or the plaintiff) might feel personally "offended". 

Sorry, against better intentions, I have to say something here since it is relevant to the people being discussed and it really confuses offender and victim and suggests a method of suppression of freedom that doesn't exist (at least in the juridsictions relevant here). Nobody is suing Thieleman for what he is saying nor is anyone suppressing him. There would be no basis for doing so under German law. You'd have to deny the holocaust or actively incite people to violence (Volksverhetzung) to be able to be sued (and that law goes back to the immediate postwar period, way before there was anything like "political correctness"). But quite to the contrary, Thielemann himself did threaten to sue those who accused him of making anti-semitic remarks a few years ago (for which there is a legal basis, libel and slander, when the speaker in question doesn't have evidence to support his statements). Again, the PC police doesn't exist, much less any legal mechanism for suppressing "non-PC" thought. The only thing that exists is the paranoia of those not used to having their views challenged.

If only we heard an alternative point of view which was realistic, based on shared cultural values and aligned with community and society generally I'd be out cheering in the streets.

See, this statement of yours is highly problematic, because who elected you to decide what is "realistic" and what is "aligned" with "shared cultural values", whatever those may be? The problem is that you live in a diverse society and no longer one where a dominant culture imposes its will on the rest. So you are unwilling to accept that those who don't "align" with you are even part of any "shared culture", you don't even consider their viewpoints "realistic". *That* is the problem and *that* is the real attempted suppression of free speech that is going on here. You want your viewpoint to be dominant again and lament the fact that it isn't.

[Ken B]

Silly me. I thought this was about who would make a great leader of a great orchestra.
The obvious choice is Dudamel. He is the marquee name, DG would love it, and he's an immense talent.
My Only fear is that MishaK might approve, and after reading just some of this thread I must say I would regret that.

[Mirror Image]

Corrected. He's ours!

Yeah, I knew he signed a contract with the Bergen Philharmonic, but I didn't really know how exclusive it was. You guys are lucky.

[kaergaard]

Kent Nagano!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[(poco) Sforzando]

Silly me. I thought this was about who would make a great leader of a great orchestra.
The obvious choice is Dudamel. He is the marquee name, DG would love it, and he's an immense talent.
My Only fear is that MishaK might approve, and after reading just some of this thread I must say I would regret that.

Salonen.

[Ken B]

Salonen.

A good choice. If age were no issue, or they were looking for a caretaker for a few years, my first choice would be MTT. Not that they will ask me!

[Peter Power Pop]

"The Spectator" has voted for Barenboim, endorsing him as the peace-making and ideal musician, but you can't read the article because of a pay wall.

That Spectator article is now available:

http://www.spectator.co.uk/arts/music/9500502/why-the-next-head-of-the-berlin-phil-should-be-daniel-barenboim/

[Mirror Image]

I really hope it's not going to be Barenboim.

[kaergaard]

Kent Nagano!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[some guy]

Silly me. I thought this was about who would make a great leader of a great orchestra.
The obvious choice is Dudamel. He is the marquee name, DG would love it, and he's an immense talent.
My Only fear is that MishaK might approve, and after reading just some of this thread I must say I would regret that.

Wow.

And coming right after one of Misha's calm, respectful, and intelligent responses.

Well, the old ad hom is certainly one way to avoid having to deal with ideas.

Anyway, wow. Just wow.

[Brian]

The people of Dresden have had their fair share of horrors in the past.

Yes, no wonder they hate Americans.


P.S. Misha has been exemplary in making sure this thread didn't entirely devolve into a mindless mud-slinging flamewar.

[Brian]

Back on topic, I agree about Kent Nagano being a very cool possibility.

Does anybody have an informed read on possibilities, from the standpoint of, who's been a very frequent guest in Berlin for the past 3-4 years?

[Sergeant Rock]

P.S. Misha has been exemplary in making sure this thread didn't entirely devolve into a mindless mud-slinging flamewar.

[king ubu]

Yes, no wonder they hate Americans.

They could also start hating nazis ... the myth of Dresden having been the worst nightmare and whathaveyou of innocent (ha!) German civilians (plenty of war industry there, too) is a still-reigning success of nazi propaganda. Time to do away with that and face the truth.

But:

P.S. Misha has been exemplary in making sure this thread didn't entirely devolve into a mindless mud-slinging flamewar.

Yes indeed, so I shut up now, I don't feel like discussing the above point with anyone who has any sympathies for pegida and/or Thielemanns political leanings (add his haircut, too - fits the image).

[Gurn Blanston]

Kent Nagano!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Interesting idea. I like him, for what that's worth.

Too bad Harnoncourt is approaching 100...  

[Gurn Blanston]

Wow.

And coming right after one of Misha's calm, respectful, and intelligent responses.

Well, the old ad hom is certainly one way to avoid having to deal with ideas.

Anyway, wow. Just wow.

Agreed. Somehow I get the feeling that people didn't actually read what he had to say, which I think was well-thought-out and a good representation of what someone living in Germany today might be thinking. On topics such as that, having a foreigner come to Texas and tell me what we are thinking would be every bit as obnoxious as it sounds.

[Todd]

This was brought up before in another thread, and, as there, I say give the position to 2015 Karajan Prize winner Thomas Hengelbrock.  He's an extraordinary conductor, though his musical tastes may not align with the BP's.  I have no idea who is being considered, and I doubt anyone posting here does, either. 

[some guy]

Yes, no wonder they hate Americans.


P.S. Misha has been exemplary in making sure this thread didn't entirely devolve into a mindless mud-slinging flamewar.

One, in actual fact, they do not. I know this for certain.

Two, in actual fact, this is true. I know this for certain.