Paris

[lisa needs braces]

As someone of Islamic background I am especially saddened that, once again, people who claim to be Muslims carried a horrendous and barbaric attack on innocents.

And let's not forget that a couple of weeks ago a plane full of Russians flying out of Egypt was blown up by this same group (200 dead.)

I mourn for the victims and their families.

[Purusha]

I find it fascinating how quite this forum is regarding this incident. A bit of an embarrassment for people who have espoused a certain narrative perhaps? Reminds me of the rotherham case, which nobody seems to be talking about. Ever.

[Florestan]

How many more hundreds of people must be killed, maimed or injured before the European political establishment realize that radical islam must be extirpated from Europe before it extirpates Europe? All radical imams and preachers should immediately and irrevocably be deported together with their family and followers and their mosques should be permanently shut down. And above all, the criminally lax Muslim immigration policies should be drastically revised and ammended.

[The new erato]

I find it fascinating how quite this forum is regarding this incident. A bit of an embarrassment for people who have espoused a certain narrative perhaps? Reminds me of the rotherham case, which nobody seems to be talking about. Ever.

Perhaps because there are so many forums to discuss this, and because we don't want this forum to implode like so many other forums have? Of course I have strong feelings about this, but I will keep the to meyself here and focus of music, which is a great equalizer over many other differences.

[The new erato]

How many more hundreds of people must be killed, maimed or injured before the European political establishment realize that radical islam must be extirpated from Europe before it extirpates Europe? All radical imams and preachers should immediately and irrevocably be deported together with their family and followers and their mosques should be permanently shut down. And above all, the criminally lax Muslim immigration policies should be drastically revised and ammended.

I'm currently reading Simon Winder's eminently readable Danubia about the Habsburg history, and living in a country historically ravaged by the Ottoman wars, I can totally see where you are coming from.  . But I will still strongly advice against this board going down in flames in political threads.

[Florestan]

I'm currently reading Simon Winder's eminently readable Danubia about the Habsburg history, and living in a country historically ravaged by the Ottoman wars, I can totally see where you are coming from.  . But I will still strongly advice against this board going down in flames in political threads.

You shouldn´t worry and neither should the mods. I said all I had to say and won´t go into, or start, any further polemics on the issue.

[The new erato]

You shouldn´t worry and neither should the mods. I said all I had to say and won´t go into, or start, any further polemics on the issue.

As long as you don't bait others.....but I'm not a moderator, not my business to meddle.

[Jo498]

I really find it ironic that many people apparently seriously belief that the main problem is that "the West" has been "too soft" on extremism (or "too soft" generally, usually preached by tenured professors and well off journalists who have known hardly any hardship (not to speak of combat action) in their lives).

Isn't the main problem that "the West" has helped destabilizing what little stability there was in the islamic world for many years now, playing favorites as long as some bastard was "our bastard", breeding a dozen potential terrorists for every one killed in a drone strike (and probably a hundred for every innocent child killed as collateral damage)? And sucking up to countries like Saudi Arabia or oligarchic Emirates all the time, letting weapons slip through (or selling them ourselves) to ISIS and related groups...

[Florestan]

Isn't the main problem that "the West" has helped destabilizing what little stability there was in the islamic world for many years now, playing favorites as long as some bastard was "our bastard", breeding a dozen potential terrorists for every one killed in a drone strike (and probably a hundred for every innocent child killed as collateral damage)? And sucking up to countries like Saudi Arabia or oligarchic Emirates all the time, letting weapons slip through (or selling them ourselves) to ISIS and related groups...

That is true. One of the many "main" problems.

[Que]

I really find it ironic that many people apparently seriously belief that the main problem is that "the West" has been "too soft" on extremism (or "too soft" generally, usually preached by tenured professors and well off journalists who have known hardly any hardship (not to speak of combat action) in their lives).

Isn't the main problem that "the West" has helped destabilizing what little stability there was in the islamic world for many years now, playing favorites as long as some bastard was "our bastard", breeding a dozen potential terrorists for every one killed in a drone strike (and probably a hundred for every innocent child killed as collateral damage)? And sucking up to countries like Saudi Arabia or oligarchic Emirates all the time, letting weapons slip through (or selling them ourselves) to ISIS and related groups...

I quite agree. The decision to try to destabilise Assad's regime proves to be as disastrous as the "regime change" in Irak and Libya, where there is no central government control at all anymore....  Seems to be a very slow learning curbe here for Western  (US) foreign policy makers...

Pampering Saudi Arabia, that has used its oil millions, made over our own backs, to spread its orthodox and intolerant version of Islam around the world for decades, was another fatal mistake. If George Bush wanted to deal with the causes of 9/11, why didn't he deal with his "allies" the Saudis (and Pakistan), instead of invading some random country that had no connection with the radicalisation of Islam? 

The worrying thing is that now ordinay Muslims that are living in Europe or the Syrians that are now seeking seeking refuge in Europe will serve as scape goats... Sure, some of fhe 2nd generation Muslim immigrants that didn't succeed in European society and live a marginalised existence, are attracted to the "higher cause" of radical Islam, but the root of the problem lies elsewhere....

First priority should be restabalising the Middle East and dealing with the sources of radical Islam. In the meantime we will have to ride this one out, I'm afraid..terrorist groups once established don't die out over night, as past European experiences with Rote Armee Fraktion, IRA or ETA have shown...

Q

[The new erato]

Saudi-Arabia is the elephant in the room that everybody is trying to disregard......

[Purusha]

The problem is that the west is being too soft at home. While western armies roam in the world, here we have elevated "feelings" above truth and we are too busy creating "safe spaces" for those who want to find refuge from reality. The Muslims have faced western iron in their own homes, against which they are powerless, but they figured out they can easily topple us in our own countries and that's what they are going to do.

I don't think i have to point out to a certain similar historical situation, do i?

[71 dB]

Sadly I wasn't even surprised by these horrible events in Paris. There is so much negative power in the world these days. We live in the era of turf wars. I know I sound cynical, but it's not my fault the reality made me a cynic. Back in the 80's and 90's I used to think the 21st century would be build on reason, knowledge and humanism. I was so wrong.

[Jo498]

The problem is that the west is being too soft at home. While western armies roam in the world, here we have elevated "feelings" above truth and we are too busy creating "safe spaces" for those who want to find refuge from reality. The Muslims have faced western iron in their own homes, against which they are powerless, but they figured out they can easily topple us in our own countries and that's what they are going to do.

I think this is simply wrong. There are bombings because such terrorism is the last resort of those who are military and economically weak. If the nonsensical fantasies about "Eurabia" and "Submission" were right, no bombing would be necessary. And it's also fairly obvious that bombings and shooting do not help with the fantasized slow "islamization" of Europe. Quite the opposite.
Or what do you expect to result from the bombings? That we become more tolerant to extremist muslims in the hope there will no more bombings? This is obviously futile as among the different sects and fractions in the near/middle East there will always be one more radical. So if there was appeasement to some group, some opponent group would probably have a *new* reason for terrorist attacks.

[Purusha]

Believe what you will, but the barbarians are definitely at the gate:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwDRoOXqDRc


Goodbye Europa, and thanks for all the fish.

[The new erato]

Isn't it strange then, that they consider us the barbarians?

[ibanezmonster]

In summary, the West: "Let's stir up a hornet's nest and then keep our doors open for them to fly into our houses."

Smart plan. Wish I were genius like that.

[Purusha]

Isn't it strange then, that they consider us the barbarians?

Yes, let's burn western civilization to the ground at the altar of white guilt. Will someone please cut our throats. We deserve nothing better.

[North Star]

Yes, let's burn western civilization to the ground at the altar of white guild. Will someone please cut our throats. We deserve nothing better.

I assume you mean guilt, great sage.

[The new erato]

Yes, let's burn western civilization to the ground at the altar of white guild. Will someone please cut our throats. We deserve nothing better.

Just pointing out a bit of irony here.