Love can transpose things bass and viol to form and dignity.

[Que]

This is the polar opposite of the Ukrainien wedding cake of a performance by Les Voix Humaines. Harnoncourt's CMW Purcell fantasias have a simplicity and honesty and humility and naturalness which I find totally winning. This is art hiding art - it just feels like a totally unaffected effusion of musical poetry. Top tier Purcell.

OK, I just tried this recording. And it was a bit of a shocker, really...

Wow, those performances are a pretty solemn, dour affair.... The music is cut down to the bare bones structure, highlighting the fugues and leaving us with not much else...

Frankly, I wouldn't have expected anything else from Harnoncourt: Lutheran Purcell... An acquired taste, I would say, and not befitting the English consort music tradition at all. BTW the sound is appropriately boxy and dry.

Wouldn't be out of place at a funeral, allthough personally I would pick a performance that would be a bit more uplifting! 

[Mandryka]

OK, I just tried this recording. And it was a bit of a shocker, really...

Wow, those performances are a pretty solemn, dour affair.... The music is cut down to the bare bones structure, highlighting the fugues and leaving us with not much else...

Frankly, I wouldn't have expected anything else from Harnoncourt: Lutheran Purcell... An acquired taste, I would say, and not befitting the English consort music tradition at all. BTW the sound is appropriately boxy and dry.

Wouldn't be out of place at a funeral, allthough personally I would pick a performance that would be a bit more uplifting! 

If you want jolly (catholic?) Purcell, then Ghelmi/Suonar Parlante  is a good bet.  You understand the English consort music tradition better than I do.

I was surprised to hear it coming from Harnoncourt because of the simplicity -- I would have expected more jolts and shocks from him (in the manner of Les Voix Humaines.) However, yesterday I listened to Harnoncourt playing the sixth cello suite and was also rather impressed by the direct honesty of the approach -- these early recordings are special IMO.

Here's an example of the English consort tradition which Purcell was referring back to in the fantazias

and another

and another

[Que]

If you want jolly (catholic?) Purcell, then Ghelmi/Suonar Parlante  is a good bet.  You understand the English consort music tradition better than I do.

We both know I wouldn't agree with such a claim. I have my own - personal - understanding of the English consort music tradition. But I think objectively, this perfomances creates the biggest distance to any English consort music in any performance I've ever heard. But maybe they are all wrong and Harnoncourt is right. Whichever is the case: not my cup of tea! 

I was surprised to hear it coming from Harnoncourt because of the simplicity -

I wasn't surprised. It quite fits into Harnoncourt's approach of Baroque music in the early stage of his career. 

[Florestan]

Frankly, I wouldn't have expected anything else from Harnoncourt: Lutheran Purcell...

Harnoncourt was a devout Catholic. I'm puzzled. 

[Que]

Harnoncourt was a devout Catholic. I'm puzzled. 

Austrian, you're right indeed! But musically...  I had his Bach in mind.

[Mandryka]

Austrian, you're right indeed! But musically...  I had his Bach in mind.

This is one that always sticks in my mind from Harnoncourt's Bach precisely because of the way the cello clashes with the voice, a decision to maximise the jolts I suppose. I was completely discombobulated when I first heard it, and I still am. To me it feels like the two performers are in different rooms and they can't hear each other. But for all I know it's not a good indication of his general approach. Here's a more classically coherent version to compare and contrast.

[AnotherSpin]

This is one that always sticks in my mind from Harnoncourt's Bach precisely because of the way the cello clashes with the voice, a decision to maximise the jolts I suppose. I was completely discombobulated when I first heard it, and I still am. To me it feels like the two performers are in different rooms and they can't hear each other. But for all I know it's not a good indication of his general approach. Here's a more classically coherent version to compare and contrast.

I really like Christophe Coin's recordings of the Cantatas. I think he recorded ten Cantatas in all?

[Mandryka]

Having enjoyed listening to Purcell's fantasies, I thought I'd check some other British composers who published fantasy cycles. The only one I can think of is Gibbons in fact - I think he published his 3 part fantasias all together with a specified order, in 1621.


Francois Joubert Caillet intersperses some larger scale music with the 1621 fantasies, and they re-order. That may or may not be a shame - one thing I can say confidently is that this is lovely recording to hear: a sensual and fluid interpretation, slow enough to let you smell the roses. Extraordinary deep bass viol - I'll try it on the big system tomorrow.



Hope you're OK @AnotherSpin - I read it was a difficult night in Odessa.

[Que]

Having enjoyed listening to Purcell's fantasies, I thought I'd check some other British composers who published fantasy cycles. The only one I can think of is Gibbons in fact - I think he published his 3 part fantasias all together with a specified order, in 1621.


Francois Joubert Caillet intersperses some larger scale music with the 1621 fantasies, and they re-order. That may or may not be a shame - one thing I can say confidently is that this is lovely recording to hear: a sensual and fluid interpretation, slow enough to let you smell the roses. Extraordinary deep bass viol - I'll try it on the big system tomorrow.

Gorgeous recording. 

Hope you're OK @AnotherSpin - I read it was a difficult night in Odessa.

+1

[AnotherSpin]

Having enjoyed listening to Purcell's fantasies, I thought I'd check some other British composers who published fantasy cycles. The only one I can think of is Gibbons in fact - I think he published his 3 part fantasias all together with a specified order, in 1621.


Francois Joubert Caillet intersperses some larger scale music with the 1621 fantasies, and they re-order. That may or may not be a shame - one thing I can say confidently is that this is lovely recording to hear: a sensual and fluid interpretation, slow enough to let you smell the roses. Extraordinary deep bass viol - I'll try it on the big system tomorrow.



Hope you're OK @AnotherSpin - I read it was a difficult night in Odessa.

I am ok, thank you.

[Mandryka]

Gorgeous recording. 

Gorgeous interpretation. Next time you listen, let me know what you think of the sound, I'm a bit uncomfortable about the sound of it this morning, but it could just be me.

Better - some dickhead turned the volume knob on the subwoofer up without telling me.

[AnotherSpin]

Gorgeous interpretation. Next time you listen, let me know what you think of the sound, I'm a bit uncomfortable about the sound of it this morning, but it could just be me.

Better - some dickhead turned the volume knob on the subwoofer up without telling me.

Listening now, the sound quality is fine.

[Que]

Crossposting from the WAYLT thread:



Fretwork's 2nd recording. Impressions on the differences are similar to when I first heard this remake: more swift and crisp, with the recording revealing more inner details. But my reservations are the same as well: it also sounds more deliberate and very "neat". There is a lot of (introspective) intensity, combined with restraint. It is almost as if in their strife for perfection and to improve on their 1st recording, they forgot to enjoy themselves...

[Que]

Austrian, you're right indeed! But musically...  I had his Bach in mind.

To offer some further thought on this: The perception that these Fantasias are somehow like Bach's Die Kunst der Fuge but then for viols, seems to be popular with some reviewers - as well as with Harnoncourt, who goes all out on this approach. This is IMO a big misconception.

[Florestan]

To offer some further thought on this: The perception that these Fantasias are somehow like Bach's Die Kunst der Fuge but then for viols, seems to be popular with some reviewers - as well as with Harnoncourt, who goes all out on this approach. This is IMO a big misconception.

You mean abstract and studied seriousness is not at all what they are about, right?

[Que]

You mean abstract and studied seriousness is not at all what they are about, right?

Yes, I do: in character Purcell was no Bach. Also the musical context is quite different: Purcell was an English composer who wrote in the context of an English tradition - a tradition of consort music which started in the Renaissance.

[Florestan]

Yes, I do: in character Purcell was no Bach. Also the musical context is quite different: Purcell was an English composer who wrote in the context of an English tradition - a tradition of consort music which started in the Renaissance.

I agree.

[Mandryka]

My experience of listening to the Purcell sequence of fantasias is similar to what I feel when I listen to AoF. There's a sense of déja vu in both: I feel as though I'm always coming across musical ideas which I've  met before, possibly transformed in some way. Both are holistic experiences.

[Mandryka]

Yes, I do: in character Purcell was no Bach. Also the musical context is quite different: Purcell was an English composer who wrote in the context of an English tradition - a tradition of consort music which started in the Renaissance.

 AoF is keyboard music. The Purcell fantasias ain't.

 There could be an indirect connection between Bach and Purcell via Handel -- but now I'm out of my depth since I don't really know about Handel's, Purcell's or Bach's vocal music.

[Mandryka]

Marc Levy plays all Gibbons's 1601 fantasias together, in the order of publication. That was a good idea IMO, because it does seem reveal not only the holism of the collection, but also the way the complexity increases. Or maybe it's my imagination - I've never seen an analysis of the music. Some harpsichord is sometimes in the mix, it sounds fine. The treble viol seems to dominate, that may be very hard to avoid, and possibly not desirable. The approach is more dancing than sensual or lyrical, so it's one sided, but they all are! The sound - or maybe it's the sound engineering - is more conventional than Joubert-Caillet, which I really don't like. 

There are some other pieces on the CD, but I've been focussing on the 1621 set.