Schumann's Kreisleriana

[amw]

Distinct from the general Schumann piano music thread—feel free to discuss musical aspects of the piece, or talk about your favourite recordings or whatever.

Some things that interest me at the moment include:

- I know I've heard recommendations for interpretive things that are rarely carried out. Charles Rosen, for instance, calls for accenting the first and third quavers of every bar in the right-hand part in the first eight bars of No. 1, whereas most pianists accent the second and fourth quavers in keeping with the left-hand line. Someone else (I don't remember who) suggests playing the middle section of No. 1 much like Chopin's Aeolian Harp Etude, with the pedal depressed and the notes just barely allowed to speak.
- Relative tempi: "Etwas bewegter/lebhafter/langsamer", a common instruction. Some performances take Interlude II in No. 2 (Etwas bewegter) almost twice as fast as the basic tempo, and similarly the Etwas bewegter in No. 4, whereas others increase speed only slightly. There's much more of an interpretive mainstream with the Etwas langsamer in No. 3 and the Etwas bewegter in No. 6, but nonetheless a few performances take the latter much slower or the former much faster, to variable effect.
- Absolute tempi: No. 8 has no initial metronome mark and the variation in tempo is at least two and a half minutes—from the swift performances that bring it across as a Wild Hunt (eg Anda) to more controlled but still fast performances, to slower ones that often aim for high precision, to very slow ones that almost lose momentum (eg Afanassiev).
- While on the topic of No. 8, it's sort of interesting that very few people play the rhythms accurately (the semiquavers usually get turned into demis)
- Schumann's pedaling: Schumann often favours long pedals, and sometimes indicates them explicitly (e.g. Pedale grande in the Marche des Davidsbündler contre les Philistins). Some pianists deploy them where appropriate throughout Kreisleriana—I've found through practical experience that there are a number of places they work and sound well. Others use only more traditional harmonic/colouristic pedaling. A few use almost no pedal at all.
- Which bits are Kreisler, and which are the cat? >_> (I haven't read the novel, don't know more than five words of German)

[Sean]

Impressive post there...

I got to know the work in the 80s but only bought it on CD in the complete Demus set; I actually bought it twice with the latest remastering an improvement that brings a wider dynamic range and characterization between works.

I'm very interested in this repertory with its form by mosaic rather than traditional architecture and symmetry.

[XB-70 Valkyrie]

A magical world unto itself, like all of Schumann's great cycles (Carnaval, Waldszenen, etc.). If you can deal with the relatively poor sound quality, Konstantin Igumnov recorded a spellbinding version in the Soviet Union in 1941. It is possible that this has gone out of print at this point, unless you can find the "Legendary Russian Pianists" set. I also like Argerich's performance (in vastly better sound quality), but Argerich is one pianist I have never fully been at ease with. I am also interested in exploring other recommendations.

[Mandryka]

- Which bits are Kreisler, and which are the cat? >_> (I haven't read the novel, don't know more than five words of German)

I think it's very hard to say because as far as I know there are no programme notes, and anyway Kreisleriana is really a sequence of representations in music of moods elicited by the book, not a series of musical pictures of scenes in the book.

In the book there are lots of dance scenes and there are lots of dances in Kreisleriana too. Someone I know once once suggested to me that the waltz in No. 5 is referring to passionate dancing described by Kreisler, which is then mocked  by Murr and other moggies on the roof. He went on to use this as the basis for the criticism of  a performance (Cortot's first), saying that he doesn't play 5 with enough mood swings from passion to humour.

[zamyrabyrd]

it seems there are several recordings of Horowitz with people swearing by this or that performance.
This one from 1969 is remarkable for its super clean articulation, unmuddled by pedal that a lot of pianists indulge in:

https://www.youtube.com/v/IYDHDKS9deg

Annie Fischer who goes largely unappreciated, admirably tackled this work and is one of my favorite:

https://www.youtube.com/v/potcaiHtC5k

I like the way she brings out the goofy offbeat agogics.

[Florestan]

- Which bits are Kreisler, and which are the cat? >_> (I haven't read the novel, don't know more than five words of German)

I think it's very hard to say because as far as I know there are no programme notes, and anyway Kreisleriana is really a sequence of representations in music of moods elicited by the book, not a series of musical pictures of scenes in the book.

This article deals exactly with the issue:

Music, Magic, and Madness: Tales of Hoffmann, Schumann and Kreisler

For a more general and in-depth analysis, try this Ph.D. thesis:

SCHUMANN'S MUSIC AND HOFFMANN'S FICTIONS

[Jo498]

I wouldn't tie an interpretation of the cycle too closely to Hoffmann's book. It has a lot of episodes and there are a bunch of other shorter pieces about Kreisler by Hoffmann published independently of "Kater Murr"; these are actually the ones collected as Kreisleriana and Fantasiestücke in Callots Manier. (Even Hoffmann's essay on Beethoven's 5th ended up in one of those collections, I think).
Of course you should read this stuff because it is usually very good and often quite entertaining (if occasionally crazy).

[Tonus Peregrinus]

...next to the thoughts and opinions:

In selecting the title Kreisleriana for his Op. 16 he was identifying his emotional plight with that of Hoffmann, who speaks through the fictitious Kapellmeister Kreisler, and of the actual music be wrote: "You and one of your ideas are the principal subject." Again, at about the same time he wrote: "I have found that nothing sharpens one's imagination so much as to be expecting and longing for something, and this has been my case for the last few days. I have been waiting for your letter, and consequently have composed bookfuls of things ... ,". Though the music owes its origin to Clara rather than Hoffmann, here Schumann is hiding his feelings under a literary cloak. Wasielewski suggests that the composer might equally well have called his music W ertheriana, after Goethe's famous novel, but in the end selected Kreisler rather than Werther for a pseudonym-because the character Kreisler was a musician by profession. In the two years preceding his marriage Schumann brought his first big spate of piano music to an end with a series of smaller pieces gathered into collections. His letters at this time reveal that she was never far from his thoughts as he wrote the Kreisleriana.
The title Kreisleriana was suggested by one of Hoffmann's writings, in which the fictitious "Kapellmeister Kreisler" conceals the identity of one Ludwig Bohner ( this was Schumann's guess), an aspiring but unsuccessful Thuringian musician. All eight pieces are as introspective and expressive as anything Schumann ever wrote, and at times the chromaticism, achieved usually by means of anticipated or suspended notes in his chords, must have sounded exceedingly strange to contemporary ears.

cortot, egorov, a.fischer, horowitz '69, kempff, kuerti, perahia and sofronitsky

[Sammy]

Favorites:  Gieseking, Cortot, Brand, Schliessmann, Moiseiwitsch, Horowitz and Karnavichius.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Here we go again.

Faves: Argerich, Skanavi, Raim, Pamela Ross, Egorov.

[Holden]

The day that Horowitz died I went out and bought this



One of the best (if not best) Schumann recordings I own. It was my first exposure to Kreisleriana and despite listening to Egorov, Brand, Cortot and Moisewitsch, plus some others, this is the recording I return to.

I was not aware of the Hoffmann tale when I first listened and even if I were I would not even have attempted to attribute any of the music to any part of the story. Like all programme music, it's the effect not the story that's important. Chopin's Ballades are a case in point.

I wonder what Richter would have done with this work......

[amw]

In the book there are lots of dance scenes and there are lots of dances in Kreisleriana too. Someone I know once once suggested to me that the waltz in No. 5 is referring to passionate dancing described by Kreisler, which is then mocked  by Murr and other moggies on the roof. He went on to use this as the basis for the criticism of  a performance (Cortot's first), saying that he doesn't play 5 with enough mood swings from passion to humour.

This article deals exactly with the issue:

Music, Magic, and Madness: Tales of Hoffmann, Schumann and Kreisler

For a more general and in-depth analysis, try this Ph.D. thesis:

SCHUMANN'S MUSIC AND HOFFMANN'S FICTIONS

...next to the thoughts and opinions:

In selecting the title Kreisleriana for his Op. 16 he was identifying his emotional plight with that of Hoffmann, who speaks through the fictitious Kapellmeister Kreisler, and of the actual music be wrote: "You and one of your ideas are the principal subject." Again, at about the same time he wrote: "I have found that nothing sharpens one's imagination so much as to be expecting and longing for something, and this has been my case for the last few days. I have been waiting for your letter, and consequently have composed bookfuls of things ... ,". Though the music owes its origin to Clara rather than Hoffmann, here Schumann is hiding his feelings under a literary cloak. Wasielewski suggests that the composer might equally well have called his music W ertheriana, after Goethe's famous novel, but in the end selected Kreisler rather than Werther for a pseudonym-because the character Kreisler was a musician by profession. In the two years preceding his marriage Schumann brought his first big spate of piano music to an end with a series of smaller pieces gathered into collections. His letters at this time reveal that she was never far from his thoughts as he wrote the Kreisleriana.
The title Kreisleriana was suggested by one of Hoffmann's writings, in which the fictitious "Kapellmeister Kreisler" conceals the identity of one Ludwig Bohner ( this was Schumann's guess), an aspiring but unsuccessful Thuringian musician. All eight pieces are as introspective and expressive as anything Schumann ever wrote, and at times the chromaticism, achieved usually by means of anticipated or suspended notes in his chords, must have sounded exceedingly strange to contemporary ears.

cortot, egorov, a.fischer, horowitz '69, kempff, kuerti, perahia and sofronitsky

Thanks all! I still don't know as much as I'd like about the hermeneutics of Kreisleriana, have tended to focus way more on the "technical" musical aspects—the articles are now in my "to read" pile.

Of course you should read this stuff because it is usually very good and often quite entertaining (if occasionally crazy).

Can you recommend any translations? >_>

[Sean]

zamyrabyrd, thanks for the Horowitz link, amazing technique, blending and articulation in balance, satisfying indeed.

[Jo498]

Not surprisingly I have not read any translations of Hoffmann's writing. (And I would probably not recommend them for someone starting to learn German).
Unfortunately only little seems to be on Gutenberg (most in anthologies) and nothing obviously Kreisler-related. There are a few on music "An interrupted cadence" in "Serapion Brothers" (that also contains the Nutcracker tale).

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/31820/31820-h/31820-h.htm#div1_cadence
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/31820/31820-h/31820-h.htm#div1_singers
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/31820/31820-h/31820-h.htm#div1_poet
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/31820/31820-h/31820-h.htm#div1_nutcracker

One of the most famous ones (main basis for Offenbach's opera)
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/32046/32046-h/32046-h.htm#sandman

Another good one (Hindemith's opera "Cardillac" is based on it)
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/31439/31439-h/31439-h.htm#div1_scud%C3%A9ri

I am somewhat confused by the idea (are there remarks by Schumann?) that the cycle might as well have been "Wertheriana". Goethe did not like Hoffmann's writing at all (way too crazy); o.k. in 1815 Goethe was very far from his Werther of the 1770s.
In any case, Hoffmann's brand of dark romanticism is very different from both the young Werther and the mature Goethe. "Kater Murr" is somewhat different from a lot of other Hoffmann in that it is mostly biting satire on the society of that time whereas many of the shorter novellas are a kind of dreamy or nightmarish "weird tale".

[amw]

it seems there are several recordings of Horowitz with people swearing by this or that performance.
This one from 1969 is remarkable for its super clean articulation, unmuddled by pedal that a lot of pianists indulge in:

https://www.youtube.com/v/IYDHDKS9deg

Thanks. (I know and love Fischer.) I think this is the Horowitz recording I've heard before, and then as now it's not quite "it" for me, but I did enjoy his use of touch more than I remember—better finger control than almost anyone. I also love how he more or less completely ignores the indicated rhythms in the left hand of No. 8—die Bässe durchaus leicht und frei, indeed. (I'll consider whether I like it enough to add—am fairly picky with my Kreislerianas, only have 11 or so right now, but it's not like any of them is perfect, anyway.)

The super-clean articulation and light-to-no-pedal approach is taken by two pianists in my collection, Grimaud and Perahia. I think I somewhat prefer Grimaud, who is more introspective and less tasteful, but both are favourites. There is also a similar recording by Schiff where he plays it more or less like a set of Schubert impromptus.

I am somewhat confused by the idea (are there remarks by Schumann?) that the cycle might as well have been "Wertheriana". Goethe did not like Hoffmann's writing at all (way too crazy); o.k. in 1815 Goethe was very far from his Werther of the 1770s.
In any case, Hoffmann's brand of dark romanticism is very different from both the young Werther and the mature Goethe. "Kater Murr" is somewhat different from a lot of other Hoffmann in that it is mostly biting satire on the society of that time whereas many of the shorter novellas are a kind of dreamy or nightmarish "weird tale".

I have no idea what Schumann's relationship with Goethe's writing was like—my general impression seems to be initially less important to him, but becoming more important by the 1840s. It's possible he started to identify a bit more with Werther during the enforced separation from Clara (also wasn't Kreisleriana written around the time it seemed like she was going to get married off to someone else? that was 1838 right? have to keep better track of the chronology)

[Jo498]

Schumann probably had absorbed most of Goethe already as a teenager. He was more than half a writer and by far the best-educated of all the famous German/Austrian 19th century composers (that is, discounting e.g. Nietzsche who is not mainly known as a composer). He had written lots of stuff and done translations already in his school years. I guess that later on he passed through phases associating various of his favorite authors or literary pieces with his biographical situation and also musical compositions. (Like Berlioz, he really strove hard to be a mad romantic artist)

Although the paper linked above is way too generous wrt Schumann's "law degree": he never received any and actually dropped out of university quite soon after a few unhappy semesters at the law faculty (much later he received a more or less honorary doctorate for his music and writings). Whereas Hoffmann had graduated law studies with distinction and worked as some kind of law clerk (later on even in the comparably senior position of "Kammergerichtsrat") most of the time because he could not get decent positions as conductor.

Schumann's other (or even main) favorite author was Jean Paul (Friedrich Richter) who wrote sprawling novels (I have never read any) and "Papillons" is supposedly based on scenes/characters from Jean Paul. (Mahler also was fan of both Paul and Hoffmann, the original subtitle "Titan" of his first symphony refers to Jean Paul.)

[amw]

I mostly know about the Hoffmann & Jean Paul connections (though I also have never read Jean Paul)—some sources have claimed JP was also an influence on the Intermezzi Op. 4 and maybe Carnaval (which quotes the Papillons in a couple of places), and he was certainly Schumann's obsession around the 1830-1834 years. Certainly Schumann would have known Goethe & probably all of the other major contemporary authors, I'm just not sure when/if he had his "Goethe phase" to rival his Jean Paul and Hoffmann phases. (Scenes from Goethe's Faust was begun in the mid 1840s, after he had more or less stopped writing non-educational piano music.)

[Tonus Peregrinus]

Ausserst bewegt d: precise melodic slurring will be facilitated by a carefully controlled rotation technique.
Sehr innig und nicht zu rasch Bb: octave and double-note legato technique are essential; the two intermezzi require quicker tempi.
Sehr aufgeregt g: repeated four-note figures move to an animated climax; midsection is in a contrasting cantilena style.
Sehr langsam Bb: calls for sensitive tonal control.
Sehr lebhaft g: opening subject needs a light touch; numerous rhythmic repetitions test the performer's interpretive powers.
Sehr langsam EBb: expressive tonal quality demanded.
Sehr rasch c: vigorous, energetic; calls for facile, yet strong fingers.
Schnell und spielend g: light pianissimo touch is appropriate for the opening, great power for the climax.

[Jo498]

I guess my point was more that while Hoffmann and Paul were special Schumann favorites and also more or less controversial literary avantgarde Goethe (despite living longer than either) was already a "classic" in Schumann's youth, so more an obvious background for almost everyone who had received some education and/or followed poetry and literature.

[Florestan]

Schumann probably had absorbed most of Goethe already as a teenager. He was more than half a writer and by far the best-educated of all the famous German/Austrian 19th century composers

He shares the prize with Felix Mendelssohn.

Like Berlioz, he really strove hard to be a mad romantic artist

Actually he didn´t have to strive: it all came naturally to him.