Dating or not dating.

[NikF]

I meant to reply to this long ago.

This relates to the Taoist saying: 'Do that which consists of no action' which can be very difficult if you are upset or agonising about something.

Indeed! However I augment that with ol' Epictetus -

"He is a wise man who does not grieve for the things which he has not, but rejoices for those which he has."

The combo of that with the fact that most women are more intrigued by the faintly aloof/slightly disinterested version of me has (for the most part) been a winner.

e: I'll add that the disinterest is not about toying with someone's emotions - that's more of the same immature (and often cruel) crap that belongs to the teenage years at school. Rather, it's part of having made my interest clear from the outset but then sitting back. If she's interested she'll respond positively. If not, then no problem. It's all cool, regardless.

This stuff is simple. Show your interest. If she (or he) doesn't return it and you're rejected, then accept it. You're not entitled to anything, so don't behave like a spoiled little babby. No excuses. Move on. Go out and live with passion and a lust for life. Be a man.

[vandermolen]

I meant to reply to this long ago.

Indeed! However I augment that with ol' Epictetus -

"He is a wise man who does not grieve for the things which he has not, but rejoices for those which he has."

The combo of that with the fact that most women are more intrigued by the faintly aloof/slightly disinterested version of me has (for the most part) been a winner.

e: I'll add that the disinterest is not about toying with someone's emotions - that's more of the same immature (and often cruel) crap that belongs to the teenage years at school. Rather, it's part of having made my interest clear from the outset but then sitting back. If she's interested she'll respond positively. If not, then no problem. It's all cool, regardless.

This stuff is simple. Show your interest. If she (or he) doesn't return it and you're rejected, then accept it. You're not entitled to anything, so don't behave like a spoiled little babby. No excuses. Move on. Go out and live with passion and a lust for life. Be a man.

Makes very good sense to me.
Looking at my edition of the Tao Te Ching (Ed. Timothy Freke) tonight I came across the following:

In a country where the Tao is understood, there are carthorses.

In a country where the Tao is ignored, there are warhorses.

The greatest mistake is to be ruled by desire.

The greatest curse is to be discontent.

Getting what you want may be the greatest misfortune.

Appreciate what you have and you will always have enough.

(Chapter 46)

I try to remind myself of this although often don't live up to it. 

[NikF]

Makes very good sense to me.
Looking at my edition of the Tao Te Ching (Ed. Timothy Freke) tonight I came across the following:

In a country where the Tao is understood, there are carthorses.

In a country where the Tao is ignored, there are warhorses.

The greatest mistake is to be ruled by desire.

The greatest curse is to be discontent.

Getting what you want may be the greatest misfortune.

Appreciate what you have and you will always have enough.

(Chapter 46)

I try to remind myself of this although often don't live up to it. 

That's a good post.

The important part is to try to live up to it. And try and try again and never quit.

So many of these things are found across different times and cultures. And I believe that's because they've real value.

I've singled out only one part of what you've listed (although I'm broadly in agreement with it all) the "Appreciate what you have and you will always have enough" - we are all a product of our parents and upbringing and everyone and everything we've ever encountered. So being exposed to such a number of different influences and values means it's often difficult to lose sight of what brings lasting fulfillment and peace and what is (in my opinion) truly 'good'. But it's possible to find it. And when you do, others who have found the same thing will find you. In the meantime, as far as dating is concerned (but also in general) go out and live your life in the manner you would if you had already found each other. It's liberating and beautiful. Do it now.

[vandermolen]

That's a good post.

The important part is to try to live up to it. And try and try again and never quit.

So many of these things are found across different times and cultures. And I believe that's because they've real value.

I've singled out only one part of what you've listed (although I'm broadly in agreement with it all) the "Appreciate what you have and you will always have enough" - we are all a product of our parents and upbringing and everyone and everything we've ever encountered. So being exposed to such a number of different influences and values means it's often difficult to lose sight of what brings lasting fulfillment and peace and what is (in my opinion) truly 'good'. But it's possible to find it. And when you do, others who have found the same thing will find you. In the meantime, as far as dating is concerned (but also in general) go out and live your life in the manner you would if you had already found each other. It's liberating and beautiful. Do it now.

If I had to remember a single line it would be the one that you have highlighted and which is, I believe, one of the greatest lessons of that great book. I enjoyed reading your comments and very much agree with what you write.

[NikF]

If I had to remember a single line it would be the one that you have highlighted and which is, I believe, one of the greatest lessons of that great book. I enjoyed reading your comments and very much agree with what you write.

Thanks.
And yeah, so often the greatest truths are the simple ones.

[greg]

Gonna skip out on having drinks with this girl that I've been messaging on Tinder. Honestly, just not very excited about it. I'm lame, whatever.

Did the swipe right on everyone thing. Interesting results if you use the "boost" feature. Visibility is actually a huge factor. But tbh I shouldn't even be on there. Not looking for a hookup. Will probably uninstall it in a few days.

Aaaand... will stop posting in this thread.

[Mirror Image]

Gonna skip out on having drinks with this girl that I've been messaging on Tinder. Honestly, just not very excited about it. I'm lame, whatever.

Did the swipe right on everyone thing. Interesting results if you use the "boost" feature. Visibility is actually a huge factor. But tbh I shouldn't even be on there. Not looking for a hookup. Will probably uninstall it in a few days.

Aaaand... will stop posting in this thread.

I uninstalled Tinder a day or two ago and I'm glad I did. I'll report back here when I've got something brewing, but, until then, I'm enjoying my alone time.

[Mirror Image]

I swear some of these women on dating sites are just ridiculous.

You have to have x, x, x, x, x, x, x, x, x, x, and x before they even consider going out with you. Talk about living in a fantasy world.

[NikF]

I swear some of these women on dating sites are just ridiculous.

You have to have x, x, x, x, x, x, x, x, x, x, and x before they even consider going out with you. Talk about living in a fantasy world.

Yeah, you're right.

I don't want this thread to turn into a while/hatefest about women. I know you're not doing that at all and are simply shaking your head at the bizarre demands of some women, but I've seen how these conversations can quickly disintegrate and I want to avoid that here. Still, you have a valid point and so...

Short answer: Yeah, they're living in a fantasy world. But you don't want or need that type of broken person. So best just ignore them.

Longer answer: Even discounting the large proportion that are only on there for a) attention/external validation wth no attention of dating or b) are bots, there still remains a huge number who are immature and self-entitled. And if you could see into other parts their life, you would be seeing a world view and lifestyle that's a veritable nightmare. So, I refer you to the short answer above.

I really don't want this thread to go the way of others and be chopped as a result of whining about women, however I do know men have grievances about single women. But single women have many of the same complaints about men when it comes to dating. They both have a fixed picture of what they want, but they treat it like buying a new car: "Yeah, I want just the base model, really, that's all I'm looking for...but I want it with the deluxe trim and the sports suspension and the alloy rally wheels. And tinted glass, but only in the back and I want I want I want..." while the rest of us (the minority?) are more realistic.
As I said, ignore the spoiled children. They'll end up with what they deserve as a result of their immature and whimsical notions - nothing. Or their shallowness will be taken advantage of and they'll still end up with nothing.

There's someone (actually, more than one person) out there for everyone. Great, warm, healthy and loving adult relationships exist. But you can't buy them and you can't earn them by pushing the right buttons or by leveling up like a game. Just make the most of yourself for yourself. And as I wrote in a post above, live life with a lust and like you've already found each other. Finally, I refer you once more to the short answer above.

[NikF]

Personal update:
I had a visit from the dancer I met a while back (the one I first approached on the street ) at my house. That's the first time I've had a women in my home since my relationship ended, because usually we go to their place or another apartment. I wasn't going to mention it in the thread because I'm not optimistic about it - I still feel we are too dissimilar - but it was pleasant enough.

[Mirror Image]

Thanks for your feedback, Nik. Of course, I'm going to ignore these kinds of women as any level-headed person would do.

[Mirror Image]

Personal update:
I had a visit from the dancer I met a while back (the one I first approached on the street ) at my house. That's the first time I've had a women in my home since my relationship ended, because usually we go to their place or another apartment. I wasn't going to mention it in the thread because I'm not optimistic about it - I still feel we are too dissimilar - but it was pleasant enough.

Very nice, but wouldn't it be better to tell her you're not interested rather than leading her on?

[NikF]

Thanks for your feedback, Nik. Of course, I'm going to ignore these kinds of women as any level-headed person would do.

You're welcome. And I know that you know where it's at. Therefore: 

[NikF]

Very nice, but wouldn't it be better to tell her you're not interested rather than leading her on?

That's a good and reasonable question. And the answer is that I'm not leading her on. We've spoken about how we both feel at the moment. Part of what we talk about is acknowledging that it might be a case of us both have differing needs which we can only compromise over up to a certain point. As I said, we find each other pleasant company and so despite my doubts (and hers too) we won't throw in the towel just yet. She's a nice, cool, and interesting woman And she's less blonde since we first met.   

e: maybe from the outside it seems that I play games with and lead women on, but I assure you that I never do. I've many faults, however that's not one of them.

[Mirror Image]

That's a good and reasonable question. And the answer is that I'm not leading her on. We've spoken about how we both feel at the moment. Part of what we talk about is acknowledging that it might be a case of us both have differing needs which we can only compromise over up to a certain point. As I said, we find each other pleasant company and so despite my doubts (and hers too) we won't throw in the towel just yet. She's a nice, cool, and interesting woman And she's less blonde since we first met.   

That's a fair response and makes sense. No judgment whatsoever from this side of the computer. With this last experience I had, I felt that even though I did enjoy her company, that it just wasn't enough for me. Given the problems that would have arose if I had pressed onward, I had no choice but to get out of it and save myself before it was too late. Here's to hoping 2017 brings all of us bachelors a woman that will make everything we wished for become a reality.

[NikF]

With this last experience I had, I felt that even though I did enjoy her company, that it just wasn't enough for me. Given the problems that would have arose if I had pressed onward, I had no choice but to get out of it and save myself before it was too late.

There are so many people who don't get that. And as a result they charge ahead and the emotional investment continues to grow, which only serves to increase the devastation they feel when they finally face the truth. And I know a few people who remained in denial beyond even that point and went ahead and got married... What a mess.

Here's to hoping 2017 brings all of us bachelors a woman that will make everything we wished for become a reality.

Yeah, I agree and I hope so too.

[Mirror Image]

There are so many people who don't get that. And as a result they charge ahead and the emotional investment continues to grow, which only serves to increase the devastation they feel when they finally face the truth. And I know a few people who remained in denial beyond even that point and went ahead and got married... What a mess.

Yeah, I agree and I hope so too.

Which I suppose why divorce rates are much higher these days then say 30-40 years ago. People need to listen to their own intuitions.

[NikF]

Which I suppose why divorce rates are much higher these days then say 30-40 years ago. People need to listen to their own intuitions.

Yeah, they need to listen to their intuitions and then have the strength to act on them. But it's important to remember something else about many marriages. The Internet has become almost a digital version of what was once the 'Vanity Press' and serves as a ready made vehicle for the type of external validation mentioned earlier in the thread. So you get a couple using their wedding as a huge advertisement for 'Look at our taste in wedding outfits/choice of caterers/venue for the evening reception/honeymoon destinations etc' all with a subtext of "We're better than you. We're special" But all joking aside, the chance to show off and be the centre of attention like a little child at his or her birthday party is so powerful and potent, that any doubts about the relationship or questions of compatibility are ignored.

Chances are that like many little girls the bride grew up dreaming of her big day that features a white wedding and a handsome prince and everything perfect. There's nothing wrong with that all - for little girls. And so on dating sites you get the 'About Me' section becoming a list detailing who she wants potential suitors to believe herself to be (a real 'prize') and then another one of who she's shopping for (a real 'catch') with the unrealistic endgame being the belief that it's all going to result in a happy and healthy, strong and loving marriage...despite being built on a foundation of such whimsical and shallow BS. Still, that's their business. That's their choice and their right. And there's one more fact I could state here, but I don't want to run the risk of upsetting anyone. 

Everyone has their own ideas and beliefs about what a relationship or marriage should be built on. But no matter the nature and form of foundation, nothing is guaranteed and even a relationship built on the most sincere and pure ideals isn't necessarily going to last or be a success. And so at your wedding reception the decision to provide your guests with toilet paper by Fendi, Marc Jacobs or Escada that's artfully folded by Hiromichi Konno, doesn't mean you're going to live happily ever after.

So what to do? It's easy to be critical. But what about positivity?

No matter how long it takes, find a good person. Always be good to each other. Try to live a good life together.
And bollocks to behaving like a consumer when seeking a partner in the first place.

(To attempt to lighten the mood of the thread I'll later post some 'Terrible dates I've had' )

[NikF]

Bad dates.

Her: "...I saw one of your photos and it's really good "
Me: "Thanks".
Her: "Maybe you can show me your studio sometime? "
Me: "Sure. But when my boss isn't around, because he'll take one look at you and never leave you alone "
Her: "Boss?"
Me: "Yeah. My boss"
Her: "You have a boss? You don't own the studio? You just work there?"
Me: "Yes"
Her: "
And I never saw her again.


Different girl -

Me: "What's up? Food okay?"
Her: "Nothing. It's fine"
Minutes and more prompting pass
Her: "It's just that... you're shorter than I remembered. A lot shorter "
Me: "Than you remembered? Like, when we met last week?"
Her: "And I'm wearing my lowest heels and you're still much shorter".
Me: "Okay."
Her: "I'm sorry "
Me: "It's okay"
Her: "It must be embarrassing for you"
Me: "I'm fine "
Her: "No. Let's go. I'll take a taxi home".


On a dinner date with a pretty little secretary type

Me: "We'll have a drink in here"
Her: "No."
Me: "Why not?"
Her: "They banned me "
Me: "Ah, don't worry. I know the owner. He'll let you in "
Her: "That won't help "
Me: " Why?"
Her: "There's a restraining order "
Me: "  "

[Ken B]

Bad dates.

Her: "...I saw one of your photos and it's really good "
Me: "Thanks".
Her: "Maybe you can show me your studio sometime? "
Me: "Sure. But when my boss isn't around, because he'll take one look at you and never leave you alone "
Her: "Boss?"
Me: "Yeah. My boss"
Her: "You have a boss? You don't own the studio? You just work there?"
Me: "Yes"
Her: "
And I never saw her again.


Different girl -

Me: "What's up? Food okay?"
Her: "Nothing. It's fine"
Minutes and more prompting pass
Her: "It's just that... you're shorter than I remembered. A lot shorter "
Me: "Than you remembered? Like, when we met last week?"
Her: "And I'm wearing my lowest heels and you're still much shorter".
Me: "Okay."
Her: "I'm sorry "
Me: "It's okay"
Her: "It must be embarrassing for you"
Me: "I'm fine "
Her: "No. Let's go. I'll take a taxi home".


On a dinner date with a pretty little secretary type

Me: "We'll have a drink in here"
Her: "No."
Me: "Why not?"
Her: "They banned me "
Me: "Ah, don't worry. I know the owner. He'll let you in "
Her: "That won't help "
Me: " Why?"
Her: "There's a restraining order "
Me: "  "

Restraining order implies great sex. Just sayin'.