Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)

[eljr]

Yes, quite a bit of that from our zb throughout this thread.

no, no, no, to both of you

It's not a matter of education (reading and being aware)

Trumpism is a religion of faith.

It compels one to ignore much truth and blindly accept the tenants of the faith with conscience suspension of reason in favor of want and tribe.

Very different than simply being unaware.

If the poster where simply unaware a simple link to fact would change their perspective.

[eljr]

I have yet to see someone who changed his opinion on Trump

and you won't, it is part of the genius of Trump.

(Yes, I said genius. Democrats and left leaning folks hate when I say this. Acknowledging his mass psychology skill is breaking a more of the center and left.)


This is why I have changed my approach and do talk past Trumpets.

They win, Trump wins when you engage in debate as it validates their utterances.

It places made up words of a self serving god on the same level as established fact.

[Karl Henning]

[El Tupé] orders flags to half-staff in honor of shooting victims after mayor says initial request was denied

The move by [El Presidente Tupé] came after Annapolis Mayor Gavin Buckley told the Capital Gazette that he was disappointed to hear that the president would not honor his request to lower flags on federal buildings in honor of the five people killed in the newsroom shooting.

[Florestan]

I have changed my approach and do talk past Trumpets.

What I really don't understand it this: why do you have to do that on an internet board? What do you expect, or hope, to accomplish?

I said it before: I can fully understand the frustration. I experience it here in Romania with the supporters of the Socialist-led governmental coalition (my father-in-law and his brothers-in-law included): they wouldn't acknowledge the truth even if it hit them at train-speed and they make pathetic excuses for the most ignominious policies and behaviors. But for me this is compelling reason for not talking politics with them; I have better things to do in my life than waste my time and exhausting my nerves trying to argue that black is black and white is white, not viceversa. Much as I'd like to see a change of government, I am fully aware that as long as people like my in-laws will form the majority of the turnout --- the irony is that in terms of the ratio of the turnout to the total number of elligible voters the Socialists won only 18 % but because of massive abstention they eventually won more than 51 % together with their allies --- such a change is well-nigh impossible. Bottom line, for all talk and propaganda, democracy is not about values and principles, but about which candidate or party gets the majority of the turnout. Besides, while being on the wrong side of politics, my in-laws are good, nice, genial and dependable people. I have long since gave up any idea of convincing them they're wrong and I just concentrate on getting along with them just fine by leaving politics out of our daily interactions. After all, there's much more to life than politics.

You pride yourself on being a rational person. Please tell me what is irrational in my approach.

[eljr]

What I really don't understand it this: why do you have to do that on an internet board? What do you expect, or hope, to accomplish?

I have already explained.

It's a natural release that all humans need. To express themselves and their frustrations.

It's that simple.

I do not post politics on social media. I think that misguided. The people I speak with all day are customers so I think it best to not vent with them.

Is it better to go to a therapist? or to use an online service that provides the same service in return for clicks?

I simple choose the internet message board format.   

[zamyrabyrd]

It's OK to stray, it's not OK to refuse to acknowledge your mistakes 0r not work to correct them.

Speak for yourself. Take the log out of your own eye first.
Virtue-signaling has become a disease.
It's religion without morals or dogma.

[zamyrabyrd]

Trumpism is a religion of faith.
It compels one to ignore much truth and blindly accept the tenants of the faith with conscience suspension of reason in favor of want and tribe.

Sorry this is projection on steroids.
You don't have much to contribute by way of facts, just emotional utterances.

[eljr]

You pride yourself on being a rational person. Please tell me what is irrational in my approach.

I would suggest it's healthier to express yourself rather than not sharing your perspective somewhere, somehow.

It can be wholly rational to choose to keep your thoughts private, even wise when expression may bring consequences that endanger however it is not healthy to keep things "bottled up."

If you feel it is a waste of time to talk about politics then it is not likely of much importance in your life from your perspective. In this case you have no need to express yourself so it is perfectly healthy to not talk/post about it.

It's all perspective. There is no universal correct answer.

It is not at all like fact vs faith in an orange deity utterance.

[Florestan]

Is it better to go to a therapist? or to use an online service that provides the same service in return for clicks?

The best thing is to ignore it altogether and concentrate on those things that give you genuine pleasure and enjoyment. I repeat: if you really can't ignore politics and it really gives you headaches, then you do have a problem.

[eljr]

The best thing is to ignore it altogether and concentrate on those things that give you genuine pleasure and enjoyment. I repeat: if you really can't ignore politics and it really gives you headaches, then you do have a problem.

There is no "best thing" as we all are individual.

All you can say is that you believe the best approach for you is....

As politics can directly affect your life and in the case of TRump's culture war it does it is not prudent nor normal to ignore it.

A problem would be ignoring it.

[BasilValentine]

Sorry this is projection on steroids.
You don't have much to contribute by way of facts, just emotional utterances.

And you have presented lies about Obama that were disproved years ago and retracted by the very source who wrote them. Will you not admit to this?:

You got the idiotic story about posing as a student from Indonesia from Breitbart, who fabricated it after reading a hastily prepared promotional blurb for the small publishing house who published Obama's first book. The blurb was made for distribution at a book fare where the publisher had a booth. It turns out that the woman who prepared the blurb, who I believe was an intern at the time, made a mistake. She wrote Breitbart the week after their scurrilous story was published saying that in her hasty preparation of the blurb she had gotten confused about Obama's biographical information and that the blurb had no input form Obama, who never read or approved it. Breitbart published her letter and then retracted the original story, which, I'm assuming, you are still referencing out of willful ignorance and malice.

This proves that you are not even conscientiously reading the dubious sources you count as news, or you would have seen the retraction.   

Oh, and by the way, Trump's wife was a "les porn star." There is photographic evidence. Do you have photos of Obama's mama?

[Florestan]

I would suggest it's healthier to express yourself rather than not sharing your perspective somewhere, somehow.

I did express myself. To no avail. I'd have more chances to take down the Great China Wall by banging my head against it rather than convincing those people that the Social-Democratic Party is actually a gang, whose leader and governmental eminence grise has been convicted twice for corruption. They care nothing at all about justice, moral or ethics in the abstract. All they know is that the government has raised their pensions --- and they are too economically illiterate to understand that this propagandistic gain is offset by inflation and increases in taxes and prices. On the other hand, they are nice people with which I get along just fine.

If you feel it is a waste of time to talk about politics then it is not likely of much importance in your life from your perspective. In this case you have no need to express yourself so it is perfectly healthy to not talk/post about it.

It's all perspective. There is no universal correct answer.

It is not at all like fact vs faith in an orange deity utterance.

Oh, it's exactly and precisely like fact vs faith. No amount of hard facts will ever shake their blind faith in the Social-Democratic Party which can do nothing wrong, or, in the rare cases they grudgingly acknowledge the SDP did something wrong, the immediate reply is "the National-Liberal Party did it too" (NLP being the main opposition party).

Sounds familiar?

[Florestan]

There is no "best thing" as we all are individual.

All you can say is that you believe the best approach for you is....

Okay, fair enough.

As politics can directly affect your life and in the case of TRump's culture war it does it is not prudent nor normal to ignore it.

A problem would be ignoring it.

Yes, but -- what good is combatting someone on the internet? What difference does it make in the real world?

[zamyrabyrd]

Do you have photos of Obama's mama?

You can Google images of Stanley Ann Dunham and decide for yourself. Even if they were supposed to be "art" photos, they are not very pretty, in fact quite cheap looking.

[zamyrabyrd]

I'd have more chances to take down the Great China Wall by banging my head against it rather than convincing those people that the Social-Democratic Party is actually a gang, whose leader and governmental eminence grise has been convicted twice for corruption. They care nothing at all about justice, moral or ethics in the abstract. All they know is that the government has raised their pensions --- and they are too economically illiterate to understand that this propagandistic gain is offset by inflation and increases in taxes and prices.

I won't retrace everything I wrote so far, but the central theme in this administration is to unwind socialism that has been creeping into the US government probably since the New Deal. Streamlining institutions is part of it, instead of having multiple agencies that do essentially the same thing but are bloated bureaucracies intent on keeping their little corner of their universe intact with their cushy salaries:

https://www.youtube.com/v/5J_WWPQnVnA&t=227s

This is in keeping with pruning the hydra of government regulations that have throttled small to medium businesses, lowering taxes, bringing jobs back to the US rather than expensive outsourcing, to return to choices in medical care rather than a monolith of bureaucracy that might work in smaller countries but not one that has 325.7 million people.

All this and more is the opposite of the socialist agenda and the people who voted for Trump appreciate getting their own voices heard rather than being squashed by the well-to-do elite who promise freebies but never say where the money is supposed to be coming from, like rich Bernie Sanders or that new twit on the block, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez who is getting by on her good looks and promising the moon.

[Florestan]

I won't retrace everything I wrote so far, but the central theme in this administration is to unwind socialism that has been creeping into the US government probably since the New Deal.

I am European. My definition of Socialism (which I am no friend or supporter of, mind you!) is different than the American one --- so much so as I have the actual experience of being born and raised and having lived for 18 years in the Socialist Republic of Romania.

As such, I have to say this: while Socialism as I experienced it did mean all-out governmental regulation of pretty much everything (sexual intercourse included), not every governmental regulation is Socialism. I defy even the most die-hard Libertarian to come up with a rational and reasonable defense of deregulating traffic speed, or aviation, or waste disposing regulation...

Streamlining institutions is part of it, instead of having multiple agencies that do essentially the same thing but are bloated bureaucracies intent on keeping their little corner of their universe intact with their cushy salaries:

It is my firm conviction, based on lifetime experience, that "democracy" and "bloated bureaucracies intent on keeping their little corner of their universe intact with their cushy salaries" are somehow coextensive with each other: you can have the latter without the former, but not the former without the latter. 

[eljr]

Yes, but -- what good is combatting someone on the internet? What difference does it make in the real world?

I have explained twice already. Talking about things that bother you IS beneficial.

The simple exercise of expressing your frustrations DOES benefit the individual.

 

[eljr]

I won't retrace everything I wrote so far, but the central theme in this administration is to unwind socialism that has been creeping into the US government probably since the New Deal. Streamlining institutions is part of it, instead of having multiple agencies that do essentially the same thing but are bloated bureaucracies intent on keeping their little corner of their universe intact with their cushy salaries:

https://www.youtube.com/v/5J_WWPQnVnA&t=227s

This is in keeping with pruning the hydra of government regulations that have throttled small to medium businesses, lowering taxes, bringing jobs back to the US rather than expensive outsourcing, to return to choices in medical care rather than a monolith of bureaucracy that might work in smaller countries but not one that has 325.7 million people.

All this and more is the opposite of the socialist agenda and the people who voted for Trump appreciate getting their own voices heard rather than being squashed by the well-to-do elite who promise freebies but never say where the money is supposed to be coming from, like rich Bernie Sanders or that new twit on the block, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez who is getting by on her good looks and promising the moon.

You really think this is Trump's objective? This is a reasoned way to curb government?

Heck, the way you explain it, I too want the same things.

Sadly, if this is the objective it is being botched horribly.

Now take into account the harm a person who just makes stuff up does as president with a compliant congress and court and you are looking at the unraveling of the world order and greatest country on earth.

This can never be pu back in the hat you know. The USA will never again be what it was. It is already too late and going south fast.

[71 dB]

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez who is getting by on her good looks and promising the moon.

She is very attractive, sure, but she also had killer Justice Democrats platform and A LOT of hard work that took her to victory. Slovenia has free education. Are they richer than the US? Somehow they found a way to "deliver the moon." How did they do it? The answer is political will to invest in people and help people instead of pouring billions to military budget. It is a choice. How do you spent the money. In the US politicians don't care about people (unless they belong to the top 1%) so they don't invest in people. In the next 10 years period current for-profit-healtcare system will cost 49 trillion. Medicare for all would cost 32 trillion saving 17 trillion while covering EVERYBODY! How do you afford to not do medicare for all?

GDP per capita comparison:
Slovenia: $27,535
USA: $59,501

https://www.student.com/articles/countries-american-students-study-free-europe/

You are totally brainwashed to your ideology and no facts ever will change your opinions. You are effectively an idiot and your head doesn't work as it should work absorbing information and making logical conclusions. Ben Shapiro has a good reason to be an idiot as he is paid by the Koch brothers to be a lapdog for them, but what are you? Paid too or just a brainwashed moron? I'm very sorry I have to say this, but you are an idiot.

[Karl Henning]

And . . . another month/month loss in my retirement funds.

Thanks, Obama.