Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)

[arpeggio]

I am waiting for the bogus gobbledygook from the Trumpsters to invalidate the Senate Intelligence Committee Report on the 2016 election.

[zamyrabyrd]

North Koreans eat tree bark, yet Donald Trump praised Kim Jong-un for being loved, and listened to in awe, by his people. Looks like Socialists with nukes are somehow better than Socialists without them. 

Talk is cheap. Narcissist dictators are especially susceptible to flattery. The pistol was definitely on the table. China doesn't want nukes on its eastern border either.

[zamyrabyrd]

In the next 10 years period current for-profit-healtcare system will cost 49 trillion. Medicare for all would cost 32 trillion saving 17 trillion while covering EVERYBODY! How do you afford to not do medicare for all?

The situation is far more complicated than you are making out to be. Who wouldn't want to save so much money (whoopie!) but your figures are totally off the wall. One of the drawbacks to socialized medicine is padding, not only of fees, but frivolous complaints crowding out more serious conditions. The waiting time for interventions or operations rises drastically.

Another consideration as shown in the cases of the British toddlers Charlie Gard and Alfie Evans, when the cost of maintaining a single life is deemed too high, the death squads (as correctly pointed out by Sarah Palin) decide who is going to live or die. Private insurance or even public GoFundMe's give many more options. The extreme defensiveness of the Alder Hey Hospital in not even giving the Evans family the possibility to take advantage of the Vatican's offer to try and do something for him, is bureaucracy at its monolithic worst.

This article is only at the tip of the iceberg of a complexity that is not solved by simplifying it to "one payer'. A signifcant part of the population won't even be "paying". This in itself invites corruption.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-healthcare-spending/u-s-healthcare-spending-to-climb-5-3-percent-in-2018-agency-idUSKCN1FY2ZD

Spending for 2017 rose faster than in 2016, when it rose 4.3 percent. The report cited higher Medicare spending, rising prices for healthcare goods and services and increases in premiums for health insurance purchased through the Obamacare individual market.

[Florestan]

71's comment "The US is said to be the country of opportunities, but in reality opportunities are not the same, but based on what kind of family you are born into." is most definitely true. This is not my opinion but easily researched as it has been studied more than once.

The best indicator of a child's future wealth is the socioeconomic standing of the parents at the child's birth.

As I said, this is not opinion.

There are many Americans on this board, yourself included. It would be interesting to know how many of them have a better social status, a superior education and more wealth than their parents.

Living poor in the USA is much better than living poor in Honduras for example.

That was my whole point.

[71 dB]

The situation is far more complicated than you are making out to be. Who wouldn't want to save so much money (whoopie!) but your figures are totally off the wall. One of the drawbacks to socialized medicine is padding, not only of fees, but frivolous complaints crowding out more serious conditions. The waiting time for interventions or operations rises drastically.

Another consideration as shown in the cases of the British toddlers Charlie Gard and Alfie Evans, when the cost of maintaining a single life is deemed too high, the death squads (as correctly pointed out by Sarah Palin) decide who is going to live or die. Private insurance or even public GoFundMe's give many more options. The extreme defensiveness of the Alder Hey Hospital in not even giving the Evans family the possibility to take advantage of the Vatican's offer to try and do something for him, is bureaucracy at its monolithic worst.

This article is only at the tip of the iceberg of a complexity that is not solved by simplifying it to "one payer'. A signifcant part of the population won't even be "paying". This in itself invites corruption.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-healthcare-spending/u-s-healthcare-spending-to-climb-5-3-percent-in-2018-agency-idUSKCN1FY2ZD

Spending for 2017 rose faster than in 2016, when it rose 4.3 percent. The report cited higher Medicare spending, rising prices for healthcare goods and services and increases in premiums for health insurance purchased through the Obamacare individual market.

It is very simple: The US is the only country with for profit healhtcare system and has also the highest expenditure per capita by far. Not only are the costs much higher (that would by itself be a reason to change the system), but 10 % of the population doesn't have access to basic healthcare, while in other countries everyone is covered, because healthcare is a basic need. Couldn't be clearer that that.

[amw]

Healthcare should be decommoditised—most of the problems with single-payer or universal healthcare outside the US are due to aspects of healthcare that remain monetised and tied to the system of capital, eg pharmaceutical drugs and medical devices having monetary costs, or not enough medical personnel due to the costs of attending medical school, etc. The best model at the moment is probably Cuba, which provides more medical aid to the rest of the world than any other country & which has a higher life expectancy than the USA or anywhere else in Latin America. Medical schools are integrated into the healthcare system, almost all services are free at point of care, the doctor-patient ratio is among the highest in the world, etc. Almost all of the problems in Cuba (eg longterm shortages of medical equipment) are a result of military and economic aggression by the United States and its efforts to cripple the Cuban government and install a neoliberal puppet regime since at least the 1950s. But if the US ended its embargo & withdrew its military from the area, Cuba would probably have the best healthcare system in the world.

[Florestan]

The best model at the moment is probably Cuba, which provides more medical aid to the rest of the world than any other country & which has a higher life expectancy than the USA or anywhere else in Latin America.

Not according to the World Health Organization, which lists Chile, Costa Rica and the USA just ahead of Cuba.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy#List_by_the_World_Health_Organization_(2015)

[71 dB]

Healthcare should be decommoditised—most of the problems with single-payer or universal healthcare outside the US are due to aspects of healthcare that remain monetised and tied to the system of capital, eg pharmaceutical drugs and medical devices having monetary costs, or not enough medical personnel due to the costs of attending medical school, etc. The best model at the moment is probably Cuba, which provides more medical aid to the rest of the world than any other country & which has a higher life expectancy than the USA or anywhere else in Latin America. Medical schools are integrated into the healthcare system, almost all services are free at point of care, the doctor-patient ratio is among the highest in the world, etc. Almost all of the problems in Cuba (eg longterm shortages of medical equipment) are a result of military and economic aggression by the United States and its efforts to cripple the Cuban government and install a neoliberal puppet regime since at least the 1950s. But if the US ended its embargo & withdrew its military from the area, Cuba would probably have the best healthcare system in the world.

Cuba is interesting in this sense and also a good example that capitalism doesn't always bring the best results.

[arpeggio]

Not according to the World Health Organization, which lists Chile, Costa Rica and the USA just ahead of Cuba.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy#List_by_the_World_Health_Organization_(2015)

Talk about false equivalency.  We are still 31st and just ahead of Cuba which according to that list is 32nd.  We are so close with Cuba I feel comfortable that there is probably some reputable list somewhere that has Cuba ahead.  Taking into account our economy we are just ahead of Cuba?  Canada, whose health care is been consistently criticized by the right is 12th.  Your own list makes your observation a joke.  All one has to do is look at the nations that are ahead of us.  The United States should be NUMBER ONE.

[zamyrabyrd]

Cuba is interesting in this sense and also a good example that capitalism doesn't always bring the best results.

Decide for yourselves about Cuba:
https://medium.com/@cubanocuba/the-cuban-medical-system-both-myth-and-reality-6aa3aa1a9ebf

There are two health systems in Cuba, and this is the biggest reason for the misunderstanding by many outside of Cuba as to what one can expect if you need medical attention in Cuba.

The first system is for the tourists and officials of the Communist Party. These facilities are excellent and the care is equal to any around the world. The second, and more prevalent system is the health system for the Cuban people. This system is lacking in everything. This includes doctors, medicines, proper functioning diagnostic equipment, as well as sheets, towels and toilet paper.

High School is the final level of education for most Cubans. While contrary to the fact that Cuba is touted for its education, higher education is rare. While Cuba does have an almost 100% literacy rate, the level of reading is not specified. Most people can read the only newspaper printed, Granma, but it is written to about a 5th grade level. Due to the extreme lack of educators on the island, most teachers in the elementary schools have only just graduated from high school themselves. So the concept of higher education can be very confusing.

Doctors do not, like in the US, attend four years of college and then take grueling entrance exams to then spend another four years of their lives in med school, in Cuba, they leave high school and enter med school. This is not to demean the quality of doctors that come out of the country; it is just an observation of the educational system. In fact, it is important to note that all Cuban education is free.

Once the doctors that serve the average Cuban citizen go out into practice they can be difficult to find. All doctors work for the government, there is no private practice, so rural doctors are rare. One of the reasons for the scarcity of doctors on the island itself is economic. The Cuban government takes in approximately $8billion a year by exporting their doctors. Presently there are around 37,000 Cuban doctors working in 77 different countries.

The largest amount of these exported Cuban doctors are working in Venezuela. This is a result of a 2003 agreement between the two countries, Doctors for Oil. These doctors work in Venezuela and the Cuban government receives approximately 100,000 barrels of oil a day in exchange. At one time this amounted to about $11,000/month per doctor, although given Venezuela's present financial crisis the amounts change regularly.

The Cuban doctors, however, are paid an equivalent of $250-$300 per month, a rather large profit for the Cuban government. In Brazil, from 2013 to 2015, there were over 14,000 foreign doctors in the country most of them were Cuban. The Brazilian government paid the Cuban government $4300 per month for the doctors services. The doctors were paid between $1000 and $1200 per month.

As one Cuban doctor put it "We are the highest qualified slave-labor force in the world."

The choice to serve overseas is voluntary. However if you do not volunteer you will be labeled "unreliable" and career advancement will stop. Many doctors serve overseas with the intention of saving money. They also are given the opportunity to send large amounts of consumer goods back to their families with no penalties, a strong reason to spend 2 years abroad.

There is also the knowledge that it can perhaps be an escape route out of an oppressive country. While living in a foreign country as a Cuban doctor, escape is not that simple. There are always members of the government overseeing the Cubans, watching all that they do and keeping tabs on their whereabouts. But some do leave.

Between 2006 and 2015, 7117 Cuban doctors left their foreign posts and entered the United States. These people are considered deserters by the Cuban government.

[Florestan]

Your own list makes your observation a joke. 

It's not my own list, it's the WHO official list. If you think it's not accurate, write them a letter.

The United States should be NUMBER ONE.

American exceptionalism. 

[BasilValentine]

So Trump, a subject of the most important counterintelligence investigation in U.S. history, is planning to meet alone with Putin, the architect of the attack under investigation? This is an enormous security risk. I hope someone has obtained a FISA warrant and that the translator is an FBI agent.   

[eljr]

Talk is cheap. Narcissist dictators are especially susceptible to flattery. The pistol was definitely on the table. China doesn't want nukes on its eastern border either.

China prefers N Korea nukes to USA presence. Don't be ridiculous. China could have ended this threat long ago if they felt it was in their interest.

[eljr]

death squads (as correctly pointed out by Sarah Palin)

that anyone would ever quote Sarah Palin is shocking. Even for a Trumpet this is unsettling.

Question, do you not realize private insurance as we know have it is far less apt to cover extreme costs than Medicare?

Honest, I just can't believe the things you say, how you ignore reason and fact.

A signifcant part of the population won't even be "paying".

Agree. We need to do something about the fleecing of "Joe the Plumber" by the non working investor class. (thought you would appreciate the Palin reference as a Palin sect Trumpet)

[BasilValentine]

Talk is cheap. Narcissist dictators are especially susceptible to flattery. The pistol was definitely on the table. China doesn't want nukes on its eastern border either.

What China doesn't want is 30,000 U.S. troops on its doorstep conducting joint military exercises with the South Koreans — Oh wait, our brilliant pistol wielding deal maker put an end to that already. Trump is the only one in this game susceptible to flattery. It's Trump's favorite lubricant. Apply just a little dollop and there's no pistol he won't take up the ass. The Saudis know this, the U.A.E. know this, the Israelis, Russians and Chinese know this, and every toady still working in the White House knows this.

[eljr]

Narcissist dictators are especially susceptible to flattery.

And Putin is well aware of this. This pending meeting will be a worse disaster than was the North Korean meeting.

Tell me true, how did you feel about your orange deity being made a fool of by a 34 year old, albeit well educated, dictator?

[eljr]

I am waiting for the bogus gobbledygook from the Trumpsters to invalidate the Senate Intelligence Committee Report on the 2016 election.

no wait needed 

[eljr]

There are many Americans on this board, yourself included. It would be interesting to know how many of them have a better social status, a superior education and more wealth than their parents.

Why?

How could a sample group of a doz or two be of any statistical significance? Also you need to take into account that everything is relative and that in many ways the standard of living continues to improve even within the same socioeconomic bracket. 

That was my whole point.

Well it certainly was not stated nor implied.

[eljr]

Doctors do not, like in the US, attend four years of college and then take grueling entrance exams to then spend another four years of their lives in med school, in Cuba, they leave high school and enter med school. This is not to demean the quality of doctors that come out of the country; it is just an observation of the educational system. In fact, it is important to note that all Cuban education is free...


The Cuban doctors, however, are paid an equivalent of $250-$300 per month, a rather large profit for the Cuban government.

Two things we should learn from the Cuban template.

[eljr]

The United States should be NUMBER ONE.

Of course we should but capitalism has made that a virtual impossibility.