Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)

[(poco) Sforzando]

Nice try. 

Your complaint is still illegitimate.

It was so pleasant here when you were gone. Could you repeat?

[Todd]

It was so pleasant here when you were gone. Could you repeat?

Hugs.

[(poco) Sforzando]

Hugs.

You too, babe.

[Todd]

There are two elements of our political process which have led to dysfunction: 1) partisan politics and 2) identity politics.

Overreliance on identity politics contributed to the Dems defeat.  If the posts not only here, but elsewhere (check the comments sections of left-leaning news outlets) are any indication, they have not yet learned their lesson.  Of course, the operatives of the DNC may, and that is more important.  They need to cook up some new jargon, jettison the old guard, and present fresh faces.  I'm watching Kamala Harris.  Assuming she has no skeletons in her closet, she could be a real star.

Trump may or may not be partisan, but he will have to appoint establishment Republicans to key roles.  Despite his brashness and promises to change things up, he will have to use many of the same people who other Republicans would have used.  His administration will be partisan.  And he has to rely on McConnell and Ryan to pass legislation.  I don't see them changing too terribly much.

[Todd]

But if suffering entertains you, knock yourself out.

Actual suffering does not entertain me, but much of what has been on display for the past few months of this cycle is not actual suffering.  Not at all.  It is the byproduct of manufactured hysteria that characterizes this election.  (There are those firmly on the left who have made similar observations.)  If we are, indeed, in an era of post-truth politics, it is widespread and non-partisan in nature.  The bigger question is how to change that.

I will say that I've always been amused by people so wound up in politics, who believe in it so much, with what amounts to religious devotion, that they actually get upset at electoral outcomes.  I've never had that problem, from the first time I cast a vote when I was 18.  Maybe it's that I realized that my vote doesn't really matter, and that my opinions don't really matter, and that there is always another election. 

[Todd]

To use an old Clinton phrase, Trump proved he could triangulate disaffected Republicans and blue collar Democrats to build his winning coalition.  He just might be able to work with Senators Sanders and Warren on his "anti-conservative" policies, that is, if they don't let their own partisanship send them over the cliff of sabatauging Trump (while betraying their own followers) instead of working with him on issues they already support.

It is possible, but Trump will have to rely more on Republicans to pass legislation.  I don't know what kind of deals will be made, but I find it very difficult to believe that there will really be major roll-backs on trade, for instance.

[Todd]

True.  But it is amazing how persuasive Trump can become after winning a contest no one thought he could.

There is no doubt of his powers of persuasion, and he was underestimated for over a year.  He was also helped by the press, which gained readers, viewers, and clicks by lavishing thousands upon thousands of hours of coverage on his utterances.  The Senate, though, and senators, outlast presidents.  McConnell will prove a tougher nut to crack.

Anti-Trump protesters march for 3rd night; Portland police call it a 'riot'

Living in the 'burbs of Portland, this has been on the news every night.  Vandalism is common.  Last night, a woman driving alone had her windshield smashed while driving, and here was a case of actual suffering, as she appeared visibly shaken.  It wasn't until last night that the police did anything. 

Reid: Trump a 'sexual predator who lost the popular vote'

Looks like Gingrich was right.  The next president, no matter who, will not have any type of honeymoon.  At least Reid is gone in January. 

[Florestan]

Are post-mortems acceptable here? Glenn Greenwald has a good one:

https://theintercept.com/2016/11/09/democrats-trump-and-the-ongoing-dangerous-refusal-to-learn-the-lesson-of-brexit/

That, and the accompanying piece on Brexit, are very worthwhile reading indeed. Thanks for posting it.

And this Facebook post from one Vincent Bevin (Americans might have heard of him before, I have not) pretty much sums it up:

Both Brexit and Trumpism are the very, very, wrong answers to legitimate questions that urban elites have refused to ask for thirty years.

Questions such as - Who are the losers of globalization, and how can we spread the benefits to them and ease the transition? Is it fair that the rich can capture almost all the gains of open borders and trade, or should the process be more equitable? Can we really sustainably create a media structure that only hires kids from top universities (and, moreover, those prick graduates that can basically afford to work for free for the first 5-10 years) who are totally ignorant of regular people, if not outright disdainful of them? Do we actually have democracy, or do banks just decide? Immigration is good for the vast majority, but for the very small minority who see pressure on their wages, should we help them, or do they just get ignored?

Since the 1980s the elites in rich countries have overplayed their hand, taking all the gains for themselves and just covering their ears when anyone else talks, and now they are watching in horror as voters revolt. It seems in both cases (Trumpism and Brexit), many voters are motivated not so much by whether they think the projects will actually work, but more by their desire to say FUCK YOU to people like me (and probably you).

The leaders of these movements (Trumpstick, Boris Johnson, Nigel Farage) have acted cynically for their own benefit. They've been willing to stir division and nationalism. And some of their supporters are real racists. The only solution for that small minority is to be crushed and thrown into the dustbin of history. But I refuse to believe this is the case for the larger group of supporters, that is, half of the UK or almost half of the US. They have some legitimate concerns, and the only outlet to vent they were offered was a terrible one.

If we want to move forward productively from these historical shocks (and please, let's try to do that), rich world urban dickheads (like me) need to recognize that they are not the only people on the planet with views worth listening to.

[Turner]

Indeed, Trump is now telling the world that they are paid protestors:

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/796900183955095552

Someone must have had a talk with the mind that is Donald Trump, and now Trump says the opposite - he loves the protests, & their passion for the great country:

https://twitter.com/inglesi/status/797047652017995776

[zamyrabyrd]

Someone must have had a talk with the mind that is Donald Trump, and now Trump says the opposite - he loves the protests, & their passion for the great country:
https://twitter.com/inglesi/status/797047652017995776

I think DT is being ironic, the same when he said that the country owes HRC a great debt!
He's going out of his way to be gracious, just so long as he doesn't overdo it and becomes phony...

[North Star]

I think DT is being ironic, the same when he said that the country owes HRC a great debt!
He's going out of his way to be gracious, just so long as he doesn't overdo it and becomes phony...

He is clearly not intending to be ironic, even though you don't like HRC.

[Mister Sharpe]

Those who see Trump as the great "populist" will soon find themselves waking from their delusion:

From CNN today:  "To shape his administration, President-elect Donald Trump is drawing squarely from the "swamp" he has pledged to drain. Trump's transition team is staffed with long-time Washington experts and lobbyists from K Street, think tanks and political offices.  It's a far cry from Trump's campaign, which ended only Tuesday night, and message that he would "drain the swamp" in Washington. He has advocated congressional term limits and proposed a "five-point plan for ethics reform" that included strengthening restrictions on lobbying, including five-year bans for members and staff of the executive branch and Congress from lobbying, and expanding the definition of lobbyist to prevent more revolving door activity. But he has so far fully embraced lobbyists within his transition, and all signs point to a heavy influence from longtime Washington Republican circles on his transition. And with Trump mostly skipping detailed policy proposals during his campaign, they can have a powerful impact on his agenda."

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

You cinephiles might find this one interesting. Apparently Trump's favorite movie is Citizen Kane:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/05/13/did-citizen-kane-predict-donald-trump.html

Was his answer about accepting the results of the election inspired by the "fraud at polls" scene?

[drogulus]

     I'd rather see an end to gerrymandering than term limits. Term limits changes the faces, competitive districts mean voters matter more. Dems need to take the interests of their constituents seriously and not for granted. Repubs now have a chance, given to them by Trump, to unextinct themselves as a new, less doctrinaire party, one that isn't devoted to crushing its voters to feed its donors.

     The crisis that's arrived for the Dems doesn't leave them with no path forward. The healthiest part of the party is growing in popularity and influence. To better represent their constituents and retake territory lost to Trump the party needs to appeal to the working class Repubs are even now planning to ignore.

     From a conservative perspective the view is surprisingly congruent with the one from the liberal side. The Dems chose Blue zone solidarity over the path of reaching out to the disaffected working class. Repubs rode populist anger to victory. Now the shards of the old party are betting that they can use Trump to feed his voters immigration/deportation plus the old god/guns/gays. They don't think they have anything to learn. They won, let the Dems autopsy now. But there are conservatives and liberals who think there is something beyond the immediate results that they must learn.

     The voters on both sides who think the system is unresponsive to real needs are correct. Better prospects for Americans taken for granted and ignored will flock to the party that begins to help them. And it could be either party, though everything I know says inclusion, real inclusion will come from the Dems, because in a way unaffected by donor interests they want it. That's what the Sanders revolt was about, and what Warren is about. The Dems need to be feared and hated again, they need to pose a real threat, not just mocked for their insularity.

     The message of reform for liberals and conservatives alike is portrayed in a book, Hillbilly Elegy, that is now a bestseller.

     Conservatives and Liberals are reading it to rediscover the working class in America. Who will get there first? The early indications are that Trump will do very little for the Rust Belt voters that handed him the Presidency. He is in the process of filling slots with people determined to bring about the symbolism of solidarity with none of the real thing.

[Todd]

From CNN today:  "To shape his administration, President-elect Donald Trump is drawing squarely from the "swamp" he has pledged to drain.

He'll have to use establishment types for some roles.  His appointment to the big three and the NSC are what I'm watching.  I'd love to see Bob Corker at State.  Steven Mnuchin at Treasury would be a standard type of appointment, what, with his background at Goldman.  Jeff Sessions at defense would also be an establishment choice, and he was a Trump supporter.  I'm thinking Mike Flynn, former head of DIA and current Trump advisor, gets National Security Advisor.  Conservative choices, to be sure, but nothing out of the ordinary.  If Politico is right, and Forrest Lucas goes to Interior, I will laugh heartily.  It will be interesting to see what role, if any, Giuliani and Christie and Gingrich have.  I really don't want to see Gingrich at State, but it's not up to me.  I also dislike Andy Beal, and hope he has no official role in government.  (I'm just wondering if Trump keeps him in reserve for the Fed.)

[Turner]

Instead of focusing on Trump's tweets you ought to be wondering where the leadership is that ought to be emerging from the Democrats before the protests get uglier than they already are.

But I know it is much more fun to make attacks on President Elect Trump.

Interesting if you think that we should just forget what the President-elect says in general. I agree that there are countless unfortunate examples of what he says, but ignoring it would also mean ignoring the very content of the dialogues that are supposed to be essential for a democracy and for informed decision-making.

When he contradicts himself so blatantly, trying different versions which he momentarily finds useful for him and launching invented accusations, it shows a worrying lack of reliability and skills that we normally don´t associate with leading representatives in our political system and culture. Further whataboutism doesn´t change that.

[zamyrabyrd]

He is clearly not intending to be ironic, even though you don't like HRC.

Hmmn, HRC...
H for Her, R for Royal,
C for, I dunno, Cat, Chariot, Car, Caterpillar, Coffee, Cake...
Oh well, leave it to fill in the blank...

[Mister Sharpe]

...But, I am impressed at the level of self-abuse they can tolerate.

Agreed, they are most proficient in that, sadly, and suffer sorely from their own delusions.  On CNN, election night, the redoubtable John King showed on his "Magic Wall" the extent of Republican advance in this country, saying (almost as an aside) "Democrats don't like it when I show this map..." Better to face the music, my (supposedly) liberal friends...

[Todd]

Interesting if you think that we should just forget what the President-elect says in general.

American citizens should pay attention to every form of communication attributed to Trump, and people who can't vote an who are in other countries can and should as well, though their opinions are obviously less important in that they will have no influence on any future votes, lest they become citizens and vote.

I suspect, however, that Trump will start to be more contained, and some/many/all electronic communications in the future will be more tightly controlled.  While an "outsider" (to the extent a billionaire can be such a thing), he will have to face the security and control mechanisms in place for all presidents.  Sure, he can ignore some of them, which may be his inclination, but I doubt he will be quite so bombastic going forward. 

[North Star]

Hmmn, HRC...
H for Her, R for Royal,
C for, I dunno, Cat, Chariot, Car, Caterpillar, Coffee, Cake...
Oh well, leave it to fill in the blank...

I continue to admire your graciousness.