Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)

[Karl Henning]

An alert for the squeamish:  another article from the Washington Post:

If you are sickened by this — both the cowering from national Republicans and the repulsive defense of Moore coming from local Republicans — you must not be a GOP "tribalist," the new brand of Republican who will justify any conduct, excuse any behavior, rationalize any rhetoric, adopt any conspiracy theory and deny any evidence to protect the "tribe." It's nothing short of moral nihilism, not to mention disqualifying from public service.

The appalling and entirely predictable GOP reaction to Roy Moore's accusers

[Todd]

Looks like Moore is seeing if the Edwin Edwards standard applies in Alabama. 

[drogulus]

     https://www.youtube.com/v/0gU9op16rjQ

     I use the '30s model as a basis for understanding post depression politics not because I think we'll have a world war or that all fascists will be Nazis when they grow up. I do because it helps to understand how democracies can be vulnerable to extremist politics under depression or near depression conditions such as large parts of the U.S. and Europe have been experiencing. Austerity economics where leaders deliberately move costs down on workers are dangerous. People see their leaders fail, some of them deliberately with malice aforethought, and lash back in anger and resentment.

[The new erato]

Austerity economics where leaders deliberately move costs down on workers are dangerous. People see their leaders fail, some of them deliberately with malice aforethought, and lash back in anger and resentment.

Brexit and the UK, anybody? But fortunately, Brexit is better than invading Poland, though both ultimately defeating their purpose.

[Todd]

Tales of woe from the upper middle class: 'I don't feel wealthy': The upper middle class is worried about paying for the tax overhaul.

AmPo knows its audience.

[Turner]

Spies suspect the Kremlin pushing dozens of fake Trump ~erotic tapes to create chaos, confusion .... As many as a dozen intelligence services worldwide, on four continents, are in possession of some sort of "Trump tape featuring escapades of a controversial nature"

http://observer.com/2017/11/spy-circles-suspect-kremlin-is-behind-dozens-of-fake-trump-sex-tapes/

[Turner]

"Donald Trump's former national security adviser, Michael Flynn, is under investigation for involvement in a plot to kidnap a Turkish dissident cleric living in the US and fly him to an island prison in Turkey in return for $15m ... ((at that time)) Trump had named Flynn national security adviser, and he was playing a central role in the transition."
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/nov/10/michael-flynn-trump-turkish-dissident-cleric-plot


Due to current massive staff reductions in US diplomatic personnel, US Embassy in Russia hires private security firm associated with former KGB guy
https://twitter.com/2111015/status/929042838758875136
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41947030

[drogulus]

     

Spies suspect the Kremlin pushing dozens of fake Trump ~erotic tapes to create chaos, confusion .... As many as a dozen intelligence services worldwide, on four continents, are in possession of some sort of "Trump tape featuring escapades of a controversial nature"

http://observer.com/2017/11/spy-circles-suspect-kremlin-is-behind-dozens-of-fake-trump-sex-tapes/

     My view is the article has it exactly right. There could be real tapes and there are definitely fake tapes, which might be useful to deflect attention from the existence of real ones if any are real.

This, then, is yet another successful Kremlin spy operation, one more grand provocation to mess with our Western heads. Although Vladimir Putin is deeply disappointed with President Trump, who has failed to get sanctions lifted off Russia, much less make Washington and Moscow close partners in anything, keeping an increasingly damaged and ineffectual president in the White House, who's incapable of accomplishing much except rage-tweeting, suits Moscow's foreign policy needs just fine.

A half-century ago, the Kremlin dispatched multiple dangles and even a fake KGB defector to Washington to confuse American counterspies and, above all, to protect their real moles in our nation's capital. It worked like a charm. The resulting confusion birthed Angleton's vaunted "wilderness of mirrors," and eventually it drove that brilliant and seasoned counterspy over the edge, never to return.

     Yes, this. Meanwhile, did Trump really visit St. Petersburg or is that a vicious slander on a good man's reputation. Someone fetch me a good man! Schiller doesn't recall ever visiting the city. Is that strange or not? It's the "Venice of the North", not a place one would be likely to forget visiting, more like a place you'd say "I've never been there" if you never had.

Due to current massive staff reductions in US diplomatic personnel, US Embassy in Russia hires private security firm associated with former KGB guy
https://twitter.com/2111015/status/929042838758875136
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41947030

     Not that there's anything wrong......

[SimonNZ]

Where in the Bible does it say the ages of Mary and Joseph, or suggest there was a significant age gap?

Actually I just checked that and it comes only from a couple of non-canonical Apocryphal texts, not from the Bible.

[SimonNZ]

Trump judge nominee, 36, who has never tried a case, wins approval of Senate panel

"Brett J. Talley, President Trump's nominee to be a federal judge in Alabama, has never tried a case, was unanimously rated "not qualified" by the American Bar Assn.'s judicial rating committee, has practiced law for only three years and, as a blogger last year, displayed a degree of partisanship unusual for a judicial nominee, denouncing "Hillary Rotten Clinton" and pledging support for the National Rifle Assn."

[Parsifal]

Where in the Bible does it say the ages of Mary and Joseph, or suggest there was a significant age gap?

Actually I just checked that and it comes only from a couple of non-canonical Apocryphal texts, not from the Bible.

And where did it say the Joseph groped Mary? It wasn't a virgin birth?

[drogulus]

     

Where in the Bible does it say the ages of Mary and Joseph, or suggest there was a significant age gap?

     I don't see the relevance of an ancient text to a present day case of alleged child molestation. If the text tells you to stone somebody is it OK to do it? If it says rapists should marry the victim then it's OK, is it OK? Don't offload you morality onto an "omnipotent" Belief Puppet. Not that you really do that, I'm more concerned about people who do argue in those terms and how they should totally not get away with it.

[Todd]

Trump judge nominee, 36, who has never tried a case, wins approval of Senate panel

He could be on the bench for a half century.  Excellent.

[SimonNZ]

     
     I don't see the relevance of an ancient text to a present day case of alleged child molestation. If the text tells you to stone somebody is it OK to do it? If it says rapists should marry the victim then it's OK, is it OK? Don't offload you morality onto an "omnipotent" Belief Puppet. Not that you really do that, I'm more concerned about people who do argue in those terms and how they should totally not get away with it.

I wasn't suggesting any such relevance. I was highlighting that once again the Bible-Thumpers are showing themselves completely unfamiliar with the Bible. And, of course, if their opponent had been caught groping 14 year olds it would be a very different story.

[Pat B]

So one Alabama Republican, state Auditor Jim Zeigler (the it's-like-Joseph-and-Mary guy), says that even if the allegations are true, it is "nothing to see... nothing immoral or illegal." Additionally, by bringing up the age difference between Moore and his wife, Zeigler highlights the plausibility of the accusations: "Roy Moore fell in love with one of the younger women. He dated her. He married her."

Meanwhile, a different Alabama Republican, state Representative Ed Henry, and co-chair of the Trump campaign in that state, is so certain the allegations are false that "someone should prosecute and go after" the accusers. One can only speculate on what he means by "go after."

I probably shouldn't be surprised by any of this.

[Todd]

Hey, at least Mitt Romney is being clear that Moore should go.  That has nothing whatsoever to do with a possible Senate run in Utah next year.

[drogulus]

     Moore should go for reasons unrelated to Romney and his ambitions, even if Romney has reasons that are related to his ambitions. So long as he had good reasons, he can have self serving ones, too. Besides, who doesn't have ultimately self serving reasons for doing and advocating what's good and right, even if it's for something as basic as being good in order to seem good, goodness as a form of promise keeping. The transactional nature of ethics doesn't render it fake.

     Someone wants to be good, maybe to be thought of that way. If you seem good, acting accordingly, you get along better. Doing well by doing good is a pretty OK thing. And, I suspect much of what people think of as being good for its own sake is built on this process, like people who think a god is watching them.

     

     

[Todd]

Moore should go for reasons unrelated to Romney and his ambitions

Moore should stay to give the Dems a chance at winning the special election.  If Dems win the special election, the Republican majority narrows, making passing any legislation that much more difficult.  If Moore wins, if reports of his style and intentions are to be believed, he makes things more difficult for other Senators, which will make passing legislation much more difficult.  Moore must stay in.

[amw]

Alabama governor is apparently considering delaying the special election for long enough to have Moore removed from the ballot. I feel like voters are going to be somewhat unhappy with that. (Moore claims the accusations are lies, or maybe true but it was a long time ago and anyway his opponent supports transgenders!, and AL Republicans seem to be on his side.)

Moore should not be in office even if it would create amusing chaos, because child molestation is bad and his views on virtually every subject are cruel and misinformed, but there's plenty of precedent for electing child abusers to various offices such as Speaker of the House. It seems unlikely his Democratic opponent Doug Jones will win so long as Moore remains on the Republican side of the culture war and I suspect that if Moore is dropped from the ticket via the machinations of Governor Ivey he will mount a strong write-in campaign as an independent. So realistically the most likely outcome is another elected child abuser. I hope the Senate will bow to pressure to refuse to seat him but don't think it's likely.

[milk]

Moore should stay to give the Dems a chance at winning the special election.  If Dems win the special election, the Republican majority narrows, making passing any legislation that much more difficult.  If Moore wins, if reports of his style and intentions are to be believed, he makes things more difficult for other Senators, which will make passing legislation much more difficult.  Moore must stay in.

Is politics the only job that runs on this kind of logic? One can justify the worst kinds of people this way for what they mean to the political chess game. It's true that the stakes are always high, so it's not a simple matter. But what are we trading?