Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)

[Florestan]

So?

So nothing. If you really can't, or won't, see any difference whatsoever between BasilValentine's implicit stance and my own, then just drop it.

[Baron Scarpia]

I think you're wrong. The above applies (for the time being only) to post-USSR Eastern democracies such as Poland, Hungary, the Baltic States and Romania; but in the West proper, and especially in the US and Canada, I'm afraid that conservative people of the type you describe are already a minority, at least among the 20-30 age group, ie the millennials, while the conservative people in the 40-plus age group are bullied into silence or submission; if you're willing to take your chance with the "Western society and culture" then place your bet rather on East than West. I second and Amen! you to it.

Have you ever lived in the US or in Canada? Have you ever even set foot in the US or Canada?

You are writing about a notion of the US that is based on twitter feeds and internet posts composed by hysterical right wing lunatics obsessing about internet posts from hysterical left wing lunatics, and vice versa. It has no basis in reality.

A major problem in the US is that the influence of money in politics has vastly expanded. Certain rulings in the courts have allowed wealthy individuals to spend arbitrary amounts of money to influence election campaigns and ultra wealthy individuals have advanced policies that benefit themselves. They have created economic conditions where huge, entrenched companies suppress competition and have the power to take exploit consumers and employees.

Another (not unrelated) problem is that the economy has shifted so that an increasing fraction of a typical companies revenue is going to investors and a decreasing fraction is going to workers earning wages or salary. The middle class and working classes are being squeezed. This is what is fueling the resentment that is fueling Trumpism.

[Florestan]

Trump, reportedly, thinks these are shithole countries.

Go ask Trump about pre-1989 (the time Musk left his native country) South Africa. Come back with, and post, the answer.

Of course, if he's the racist he seems to be,

What do you, milk the GMG member, mean by racist?

[BasilValentine]

So nothing. If you really can't, or won't, see any difference whatsoever between BasilValentine's implicit stance and my own, then just drop it.

You missed my "point." It was, in part, a poke at Trump's comments about African nations, the danger of broad generalizations, and a suggestion that his criteria for shitholes is racial. Obviously, Elon Musk is not the kind of person (white) Trump wants to keep out. My apologies: Humor — or feeble attempts at it, take your pick — are hard to explain and sometimes don't translate well. 

[milk]

Go ask Trump about pre-1989 (the time Musk left his native country) South Africa. Come back with, and post, the answer.


What do you, milk the GMG member, mean by racist?

he probably thinks when black people got equality in SA it became a shithole. But I don't really know. In reality, he's demonstrated an hostility to black people and other ethnic groups. He looks down on them. He thinks white people are superior by nature. He thinks whites can be Americans but other ethnic groups cannot escape their ethic inferiority or don't have the same belonging as him.

[Florestan]

Have you ever lived in the US or in Canada? Have you ever even set foot in the US or Canada?

No, I have not. Whatever I know about US or Canada is either (1) what I learn daily from reading the links posted daily in this thread, or (2) what I learn from reading sources opposed to the links posted daily in this thread, or (3) what I learn from Romanian immigrants to US or Canada. That makes three independent sources based on which I make my own judgment.

Oh, and there is a fourth, see below.

You are writing about a notion of the US that is based on twitter feeds and internet posts composed by hysterical right wing lunatics obsessing about internet posts from hysterical left wing lunatics, and vice versa. It has no basis in reality.

If you mean that Karl Henning, who is the main, the first and the foremost source of articles here, left or right,  is "a hysterical right wing lunatic obsessing about internet posts from hysterical left wing lunatics" then so be it, although I disagree.

The fourth source of mine is:

https://heterodoxacademy.org/

If they too are just a bunch of right wing / left wing lunatics, then so be it, although I disagree.

The major problem in the US is that the influence of money in politics has vastly expanded.

The major problem in the whole recorded history of any given country is that the influence of money in politics has vastly expanded. In other words, show me one single country where money did not vastly influence politics.

Certain rulings in the courts have allowed wealthy individuals to spend arbitrary amounts of money to influence election campaigns.

If you think that this is specific to the US, or that this is going to disappear any time soon, then you are a hopelessly naive person.

And the economy has shifted so that an increasing fraction of a companies revenue is going to investors and a decreasing fraction is going to workers earning wages or salary. The middle class and working classes are being squeezed.

Source?

[Florestan]

You missed my "point." It was, in part, a poke at Trump's comments about African nations, the danger of broad generalizations, and a suggestion that his criteria for shitholes is racial. Obviously, Elon Musk is not the kind of person (white) Trump wants to keep out. My apologies: Humor — or feeble attempts at it, take your pick — are hard to explain and sometimes don't translate well. 

Yeah, yeah!

[Florestan]

I don't really know.

That's not true. By posting the following you show that you know it only too well:

In reality, he's demonstrated an hostility to black people and other ethnic groups. He looks down on them. He thinks white people are superior by nature. He thinks whites can be Americans but other ethnic groups cannot escape their ethic inferiority or don't have the same belonging as him.

Where and when did he say it? Source, please.

[milk]

That's not true. By posting the following you show that you know it only too well:

Where and when did he say it? Source, please.

It's a circumstantial case. I could be wrong. I look at his KKK family background, his treatment of the Central Park Case, his housing record, his birtherism, his David Duke amnesia, his statement about "Mexicans" (the racial undertones coming from his beliefs in this case), his "shithole" comment, and Steve Bannon's Comments about him (that he's like "Archie Bunker") as well. My conclusion is that he's more likely than not a racist. It's true that he may only be manipulating racial animosity for political gain but, for me, this is a distinction without a difference.

[milk]

No, I have not. Whatever I know about US or Canada is either (1) what I learn daily from reading the links posted daily in this thread, or (2) what I learn from reading sources opposed to the links posted daily in this thread, or (3) what I learn from Romanian immigrants to US or Canada. That makes three independent sources based on which I make my own judgment.

Oh, and there is a fourth, see below.

If you mean that Karl Henning, who is the main, the first and the foremost source of articles here, left or right,  is "a hysterical right wing lunatic obsessing about internet posts from hysterical left wing lunatics" then so be it, although I disagree.

The fourth source of mine is:

https://heterodoxacademy.org/

If they too are just a bunch of right wing / left wing lunatics, then so be it, although I disagree.

The major problem in the whole recorded history of any given country is that the influence of money in politics has vastly expanded. In other words, show me one single country where money did not vastly influence politics.

If you think that this is specific to the US, or that this is going to disappear any time soon, then you are a hopelessly naive person.

Source?

this is all just whataboutism (tu quoque). There are specific court cases over recent decades that changed the equation in America. This is why Menendez was so hard to prosecute - to give one concrete example of the drift.

[Florestan]

It's a circumstantial case. I could be wrong. I look at his KKK family background, his treatment of the Central Park Case, his housing record, his birtherism, his David Duke amnesia, his statement about "Mexicans" (the racial undertones coming from his beliefs in this case), his "shithole" comment, and Steve Bannon's Comments about him (that he's like "Archie Bunker") as well. My conclusion is that he's more likely than not a racist. It's true that he may only be manipulating racial animosity for political gain but, for me, this is a distinction without a difference.

Please show me/us which article, section and clause of the US Constitution did Donald Trump breach?

[milk]

Please show me/us which article, section and clause of the US Constitution did Donald Trump breach?

Huh?

[Florestan]

A major problem in the US is that the influence of money in politics has vastly expanded. Certain rulings in the courts have allowed wealthy individuals to spend arbitrary amounts of money to influence election campaigns and ultra wealthy individuals have advanced policies that benefit themselves.

Like, Hillary vs. Bernie? 

Look, I am a staunchly free-market, non(anti)-statist, European liberal à la 1848 --- to the point of a gun I'd have sided with Bernie against Hillary --- at least he was sincere.

They have created economic conditions where huge, entrenched companies suppress competition and have the power to take exploit consumers and employees.

Blame it on the socialists!

[Florestan]

Huh?

See below.

Please show me/us which article, section and clause of the US Constitution did Donald Trump breach?

Well?

[Florestan]

There are specific court cases over recent decades that changed the equation in America.

Either the law is one and the same for all, or it is not.

[Mahlerian]

Well?

Racism is not illegal.  It's just another way of treating people as inferior.

[Florestan]

Racism is not illegal. 

Racism is not illegal, yet it is morally undefensible!

Not everything that is legal is moral; morality trumps legality. 

[Mahlerian]

Racism is not illegal, yet it is morally undefensible!

If you wish to defend racism in the abstract, I will be interested to see your arguments.

[Karl Henning]

Where and when did he say it? Source, please.

Consistently, but generally by dog whistle. Among many others, the frequent puffing up of his own "good genes."

[milk]

See below.

Well?

I don't understand what your are asking. Sorry.