Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)

[JBS]

The Dayton shooter actually opposed Trump and white supremacists, and supported Elizabeth Warren.
https://heavy.com/news/2019/08/connor-betts-twitter-politics-social-media/

[SimonNZ]

I think they're responding to a climate of fear and anger and othering and divisiveness that Trump is generating - whether or not they're wearing a stupid maga hat.And they're enabled by Trump's inaction in dealing with or even addressing the problem of gun violence.

[JBS]

I think they're responding to a climate of fear and anger and othering and divisiveness that Trump is generating - whether or not they're wearing a stupid maga hat.And they're enabled by Trump's inaction in dealing with or even addressing the problem of gun violence.

Mass shootings predate Trump by a long time. Columbine was 20 years ago (April 1999).  The whole political system has in effect failed for 2 decades.

[Karl Henning]

Mass shootings predate Trump by a long time. Columbine was 20 years ago (April 1999).  The whole political system has in effect failed for 2 decades.

And apt to continue failing indefinitely.

[drogulus]

The Dayton shooter actually opposed Trump and white supremacists, and supported Elizabeth Warren.
https://heavy.com/news/2019/08/connor-betts-twitter-politics-social-media/

     I doubt Warren supports him.

     

[schnittkease]

The Dayton shooter actually opposed Trump and white supremacists, and supported Elizabeth Warren.
https://heavy.com/news/2019/08/connor-betts-twitter-politics-social-media/

I suppose this was more of a mental health case, seeing as there was no "manifesto" like in El Paso.

[SimonNZ]

Seriously:

The Foreign Ministry of Uruguay issues a travel alert to its citizens about visiting the USA.

"The Foreign Ministry warns compatriots traveling to the United States to take precautions against growing indiscriminate violence, mostly for hate crimes, including racism and discrimination, which cost the lives of more than 250 people in the first seven months of this year.

Given the impossibility of the authorities to prevent these situations, due among other factors, to the indiscriminate possession of firearms by the population, it is especially advisable to avoid places where large concentrations of people occur, such as theme parks, shopping centers, festivals artistic, religious activities, gastronomic fairs and any kind of cultural or sporting events. In particular, it is recommended not to go with minors to these places.

Likewise, it is suggested to avoid some cities, which are among the 20 most dangerous in the world, such as Detroit (Michigan), Baltimore (Maryland) and Albuquerque (New Mexico), according to the Ceoworld Magazine 2019 index.

Montevideo, August 5, 2019"

-

less seriously, seen elsewhere:

If the massacres in the U.S. were written up like an AP story about a third-world nation:

"Thirty-two are dead and 54 have been injured in three separate terrorist attacks across the United States of America in one week. It's a shocking surge of terrorist violence even in a troubled nation well-known for its militarism, guns and bloodshed, leaving many residents worried for the future.

President Donald Trump, the authoritarian who was installed as leader of the North American nation of almost 330 million people in a controversial election in 2016, is widely blamed by the populace for the increase in terrorism, especially for his role in galvanizing the local rise of nationalist extremism. Neo-fascist thugs and other far-right nationalists, often formed into heavily armed militias in regional areas of the sprawling country, are responsible for most of the terrorist attacks that have plagued the USA, with immigrants and minority communities in the racially disparate nation especially fearful of being targeted.

President Trump officially distances himself from these terrorist forces, but their support for him is open and flagrant, and many believe he tacitly encourages them, especially at the divisive rallies he holds regularly throughout the country. Critics also contend that the leader's draconian anti-immigration policies, which include detention of refugees from other North American nations in squalid camps along the southern border that have been cited for their inhumane and unsanitary conditions, have fanned the flames of terrorism.

Other observers point to broader factors, especially the young nation's recent history of colonial violence, genocide and slavery. It is a nation that has remained deeply divided and unstable since the official end of its racist apartheid system a mere 54 years ago. The USA is also a highly militaristic nation, notorious for its aggressive wars of expansion and invasion."

[SimonNZ]

'May God bless those in Toledo': Trump names wrong Ohio city as shooting site

[JBS]

I suppose this was more of a mental health case, seeing as there was no "manifesto" like in El Paso.

So it seems.  But note how it helps Trump, since the talk now focuses on gun violence in general, and not on the white supremacy that motivated the El Paso shooter.

[SimonNZ]

Donald Trump, who's going to El Paso this week, owes city more than $500K for his February rally

"Ahead of a Wednesday visit to El Paso, President Donald Trump still owes the city more than $500,000 for his expenses related to his February rally.

Trump is scheduled to visit El Paso in the wake of Saturday's shooting that left at least 22 people dead. The Federal Aviation Administration advised pilots of a presidential visit later this week to El Paso and Dayton, Ohio, where a second shooting occurred less than 24 hours after the attack in Texas.

But months after his rally, Trump's reelection campaign still owes El Paso thousands of dollars, according to the Center for Public Integrity. The center reports that the total with late fees is now $569,204, according to a July 18 invoice to the Trump campaign.

"It's ridiculous and unconscionable. The city of El Paso is an economically challenged community," El Paso County Commissioner Dave Stout said of the Trump camp's failure to pay.

The arena where Trump held his February rally and the Wal-Mart where Saturday's massacre occurred are in the county precinct that Stout, a Democrat, represents. He said he "adamantly" opposes Trump's visiting El Paso this week.

"He's going to be throwing salt into the wound — a very, very deep wound. And this community needs healing, not Donald Trump," Stout said.

-

and mid rant misspells his own name:

[BasilValentine]

Mass shootings predate Trump by a long time. Columbine was 20 years ago (April 1999).  The whole political system has in effect failed for 2 decades.

What a lame attempt at deflection ^ ^ ^. The killers (El Paso, Pittsburgh and others) are spouting Trump talking points. That's new.

[Karl Henning]

What a lame attempt at deflection ^ ^ ^. The killers (El Paso, Pittsburgh and others) are spouting Trump talking points. That's new.

It's a new, aggravating symptom of a virulent pre-existing condition.

[SimonNZ]

Trump made 56 false claims last week

"President Donald Trump made 56 false claims last week, delivering his usual assortment of dishonesty about immigration, his popularity and his record.

That was down from 78 false claims the week prior and 61 false claims the week before that."


they go through all 56 in the text that follows, what was said and what the facts are

[Florestan]

It's a new, aggravating symptom of a virulent pre-existing condition.

IIRC, there have been some mass shooters in the past (before Trump, that is) who were far-right nuts, for instance Timothy McVeigh. But even so, it's not these mentally deranged people (there are tons of persons out there who are angry at this or that or most governmental policies, myself included, but not all of them go about shooting people indiscriminately) that are the root rpoblems. The widespread availability of guns, the cult of the lonely warrior who takes justice in his own hands, the deep mistrust of government per se --- al these typically American phenomena empower and encourage the nuts. As long as they will not be addressed, first and foremost the first one, nothing will change.

"Guns don't kill, people do" --- very well then: make guns unavailable to people, and people won't kill using guns. It's as simple and logic as that, really.

[Marc]

IIRC, there have been some mass shooters in the past (before Trump, that is) who were far-right nuts, for instance Timothy McVeigh. But even so, it's not these mentally deranged people (there are tons of persons out there who are angry at this or that or most governmental policies, myself included, but not all of them go about shooting people indiscriminately) that are the root rpoblems. The widespread availability of guns, the cult of the lonely warrior who takes justice in his own hands, the deep mistrust of government per se --- al these typically American phenomena empower and encourage the nuts. As long as they will not be addressed, first and foremost the first one, nothing will change.

"Guns don't kill, people do" --- very well then: make guns unavailable to people, and people won't kill using guns. It's as simple and logic as that, really.

I agree with this.
The laws are the main issue here. Not Trump, or whomever.
Some people want to kill for ideological reasons, either political or religious or whatever. They also can be/go nuts and have this awful urge to kill, for no particular reason at all. That, I'm sad to say, will never disappear.
Just make it as difficult as possible. Get rid of those stupid gun laws. Right. Now.

[Florestan]

Some people want to kill for ideological reasons, either political or religious or whatever. They also can be/go nuts and have this awful urge to kill, for no particular reason at all. That, I'm sad to say, will never disappear.

Obviously. It's the human nature. But there is a difference between mass shooters and serial killers: while the latter have been around the world for centuries (it's been only two weeks since a particularly gruesome, paedophile one has been arrested here in Romania), the former are much more likely to be American than any other nation. And now that I think of it, they are more likely to be contemporary Americans. Heck, how many mass shooters have there been in the US before, say, 1990? Maybe there's something to ponder here.

Just make it as difficult as possible. Get rid of those stupid gun laws. Right. Now.

Much easier said than done, I'm afraid.

[Marc]

[...]

Much easier said than done, I'm afraid.

Yes.
A shame.

[drogulus]

Heck, how many mass shooters have there been in the US before, say, 1990? Maybe there's something to ponder here.

     The relevant factors are the combination of white fears about replacement and the availability of mass murder weapons. In this country the link between gun culture and white supremacy is a very old story. You need to be well armed to put down slave rebellions and kill Native Americans. The KKK may not have been well regulated, but they were certainly a militia that had a need for guns.

[Florestan]

     The relevant factors are the combination of white fears about replacement and the availability of mass murder weapons. In this country the link between gun culture and white supremacy is a very old story. You need to be well armed to put down slave rebellions and kill Native Americans. The KKK may not have been well regulated, but they were certainly a militia that had a need for guns.

Probably.

[Karl Henning]

IIRC, there have been some mass shooters in the past (before Trump, that is) who were far-right nuts, for instance Timothy McVeigh. But even so, it's not these mentally deranged people (there are tons of persons out there who are angry at this or that or most governmental policies, myself included, but not all of them go about shooting people indiscriminately) that are the root rpoblems. The widespread availability of guns, the cult of the lonely warrior who takes justice in his own hands, the deep mistrust of government per se --- al these typically American phenomena empower and encourage the nuts. As long as they will not be addressed, first and foremost the first one, nothing will change.

"Guns don't kill, people do" --- very well then: make guns unavailable to people, and people won't kill using guns. It's as simple and logic as that, really.

All eminently sensible.

"Making guns unavailable to people, in the U.S. is the thing which is not at all simple. It is, on the face of it impossible, given even the sanest construction to be put on the Second Amendment.

The prevailing climate, in which the Second Amendment is mistaken for Gun Absolutism, has, as we have seen, made it next to impossible to wrest the conversation from the ammosexuals.
The present White House with its insidious combination of single-minded self-interest, and constant misinformation, is part of perpetuating the problem.